Parking in Waterloo Region

[MidTowner]

If it’s the City of Kitchener, the trick would be to explain the whole situation- that, yes, the vehicle is there now; but that it is often there, and at certain times is blocking the sidewalk more than at others.

If it’s the City of Waterloo, and it’s not during business hours, you would be explaining that to police dispatch. In my experience, they care relatively little about parking infractions, and so will usually do nothing. But, if you explain the situation and give a license plate number, they may eventually find the time to contact the owner.

[Coke6pk]

Coke, the opt-out IS different.  I can choose my cellular provider and get equivalent service from a competitor with very little hardship.  I can't choose an alternative Government w/o significant hardship.  Thus (and for many other reasons - like the Government controls the police and the ability to restrict my freedom), I think Government should be held to a much higher standard.

And, again, telling someone not to use a service that the Government is providing (and we're paying for!) in order to protect basic rights (like privacy) isn't reasonable, imo.

But we're probably rehashing stuff now.

And I'd like to second MidTowner's post.

And that's why I love this board... we don't have to agree, but everyone is respectful!

Coke

[Coke6pk]

@danbrotherston - It would be highly unlikely for me to issue a ticket with 6 inches overhanging.  Our policy was at least 1/2 blocked, two wheels on the sidewalk*, or clearly blocking the safe passage of a wheelchair.

Here is the clarification on "two wheels" policy:


Coke

** DISCLAIMER: The above attachment is me working in Microsoft Paint instead of trying to explain it.... it is not meant as a legal definition, and I am no longer employed in by-law enforcement so my views may be outdated.

That's very helpful information.  Out of curiosity, this applies in Kitchener or Waterloo?

I am not exaggerating when I say 6 inches.  I was truly shocked when he got a ticket.  I suggested he fight it, but he didn't want to bother for whatever the fine was.

I am curious though, in the spur line parking lot (in Waterloo), the Laurel trail goes right along the parking lot.  Many cars back up to the curb and overhang the trail.  Some vehicles are pickup trucks which have substantial over hangs.  Some pickup trucks have trailer hitches which reach well over half way across the trail.

Are these vehicles likely to be ticketed?  They're actually blocking more than half the trail.  And also, dangerously with a hard to see black ankle level bar.  But wheels are firmly in a legal parking space.

Not an admin, so I don't know how to move posts out of the iON thread, so I'll use cut and paste instead!

I can only speak to my experiences in Kitchener, Brampton and Toronto... so I can't say for certainty about Waterloo (Although in generalities, most cities are somewhat similar)

I can't say for certainty if the trail falls under Waterloo's sidewalk by-law.  I don't recall ever having an issue with a vehicle blocking a trail (except where it crosses a road).  Best to call Waterloo By-Law and ask about that particular stretch.

Coke

[rangersfan]

The city is looking to allow taxi drivers to use a few parking spaces at the Charles St. Terminal.

https://cdn.ampproject.org/c/www.cbc.ca/amp/1.3955587

[darts]

The licence plate is a marker (which remains the property of the provincial government) for an automobile, not a person.  The data collected states that vehicle was here at this time.  It records no information on the driver and/or passengers.  If there is an infraction, the registered owner of the vehicle gets a ticket.  If there is no infraction, I couldn't care less that the city knows where/when my car was, nor do I care how long they keep that info.  The Government isn't able to track and store someone's location, just the car's.  If my wife takes my car Uptown, it records the same data as if I or my daughter had my car.  [Rogers (a private, for-profit corporation) can track my every move as my cell phone contract is with them... that scares me more, but no one ever talks about that]

If they had a parking lot like this near a mosque and the government was able to track the cars that routinely go to the mosque do you think there might be a problem or potential for the government to track movements of people.

[rangersfan]

An article on the current parking minimums in Kitchener.

http://m.therecord.com/news-story/708989...tudy-finds

[tomh009]

Coke, the opt-out IS different.  I can choose my cellular provider and get equivalent service from a competitor with very little hardship.  I can't choose an alternative Government w/o significant hardship. 

Driving a car isn't a right, nor is parking it on city property.  If you don't want the parking location of your car recorded (as coke6pk says, there is no information about who was in the car), you can (1) park in a location that does not record licence plate numbers; (2) choose an alternate vehicle, or (3) choose a different mode of transportation, be it a bus, taxi, bicycle or walking.

I am a strong believer in civil liberties but this really does not violate any of our rights, especially since the licence plate numbers are not stored beyond the end of the day.  And recording licence plates is by far the best way to determine whether people are exceeding the parking time limits.  Unless you want to convince people to adopt disc parking ...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disc_parking

[SammyOES2]

I think this was covered but I'll just reiterate, my point isn't about a right to drive a car or park it or anything like that. It's a right to privacy that would be violated.

And yes we already agreed that the current implementation wouldn't violate that.

[Coke6pk]

The licence plate is a marker (which remains the property of the provincial government) for an automobile, not a person.  The data collected states that vehicle was here at this time.  It records no information on the driver and/or passengers.  If there is an infraction, the registered owner of the vehicle gets a ticket.  If there is no infraction, I couldn't care less that the city knows where/when my car was, nor do I care how long they keep that info.  The Government isn't able to track and store someone's location, just the car's.  If my wife takes my car Uptown, it records the same data as if I or my daughter had my car.  [Rogers (a private, for-profit corporation) can track my every move as my cell phone contract is with them... that scares me more, but no one ever talks about that]

If they had a parking lot like this near a mosque and the government was able to track the cars that routinely go to the mosque do you think there might be a problem or potential for the government to track movements of people.

I don't want to beat a dead horse, but yes, if we had a parking lot near a mosque the gov't could make an inference that the driver of that vehicle on that particular day may be muslim.  What is by-law enforcement going to do with that information, except to ticket cars who stay too long.

Wanna know another way to find muslims?  Stand outside of a mosque parking lot and write down the licence plates* (Disclaimer - In light of the tragic events in Quebec City yesterday, I highly advise that this would be a horrible idea... but legally, there is nothing wrong with any nutjob recording licence plates).  If the gov't really cared, we would have CSIS agents doing that.  This is Waterloo by-law, not the Fed's.

Coke

[darts]

If they had a parking lot like this near a mosque and the government was able to track the cars that routinely go to the mosque do you think there might be a problem or potential for the government to track movements of people.

I don't want to beat a dead horse, but yes, if we had a parking lot near a mosque the gov't could make an inference that the driver of that vehicle on that particular day may be muslim.  What is by-law enforcement going to do with that information, except to ticket cars who stay too long.

Wanna know another way to find muslims?  Stand outside of a mosque parking lot and write down the licence plates* (Disclaimer - In light of the tragic events in Quebec City yesterday, I highly advise that this would be a horrible idea... but legally, there is nothing wrong with any nutjob recording licence plates).  If the gov't really cared, we would have CSIS agents doing that.  This is Waterloo by-law, not the Fed's.

Coke

having cameras automates it though vs having someone standing outside a parking lot doing counts to determine the number of cars using it.

[KevinL]

For the record, I see little to no difference between an SUV with automated cameras recording plate numbers and an enforcement agent walking along and recording plate numbers by hand. It's just that the former is massively more efficient.

[danbrotherston]

For the record, I see little to no difference between an SUV with automated cameras recording plate numbers and an enforcement agent walking along and recording plate numbers by hand. It's just that the former is massively more efficient.

In theory there is no difference.  In practice....it may not be quite so cut and dry.  Making things cheaper and more efficient does change the economics of things, and makes things more likely or easier to do.  And yes, I am suggesting that it's possible cost of this type of privacy invasion has perhaps been one factor in protecting us from government overreach, a factor which could disappear.

Still, little ole Kitchener-Waterloo, I'm not concerned.

[ijmorlan]

For the record, I see little to no difference between an SUV with automated cameras recording plate numbers and an enforcement agent walking along and recording plate numbers by hand. It's just that the former is massively more efficient.

A large quantitative difference is a qualitative difference.

[SammyOES2]

I think a lot of you guys are missing the main problem. It's not the use by by-law officers of KW that is the privacy risk.

It's the collection and long term storage of this data that is the risk. If that happens (and I understand that that's not the case now) that data is up for grabs by other levels of Government and at risk of being compromised from outside people.

Even if you're ok with a current Government having access to this data, you might not be so happy with future Governments. As we've seen, civil rights can go down fast.

So, no, just because you're taking an action that might not be a guaranteed right, doesn't mean the Givernment should be able to take away other basic rights that you have.

[SammyOES2]

And for the record, I'd be against CSIS or other agencies collecting this data manually in a widespread manner w/o good reason.

But then again, I suspect I'm against a number of things CSIS does with regards to data it collects and uses.