Walking in Waterloo Region

[Canard]

I still think this is the perfect time to get this stuff nailed down before service starts next year. I can't believe they're just letting the rapidway sit there untouched. Get it figured out, guys!

[ijmorlan]

I still think this is the perfect time to get this stuff nailed down before service starts next year.  I can't believe they're just letting the rapidway sit there untouched.  Get it figured out, guys!

100% agreed. There is already too much being done late — my annoyance being stuff like the design of the transit terminal at UW and downtown. Shouldn’t that have been figured out when the track and station design was done? But you’re absolutely right that details as simple as “who clears what areas of snow” should be worked out while we have many months before service begins.

[panamaniac]

I still think this is the perfect time to get this stuff nailed down before service starts next year.  I can't believe they're just letting the rapidway sit there untouched.  Get it figured out, guys!

100% agreed. There is already too much being done late — my annoyance being stuff like the design of the transit terminal at UW and downtown. Shouldn’t that have been figured out when the track and station design was done? But you’re absolutely right that details as simple as “who clears what areas of snow” should be worked out while we have many months before service begins.

Sorry, what's the issue?

[ijmorlan]

100% agreed. There is already too much being done late — my annoyance being stuff like the design of the transit terminal at UW and downtown. Shouldn’t that have been figured out when the track and station design was done? But you’re absolutely right that details as simple as “who clears what areas of snow” should be worked out while we have many months before service begins.

Sorry, what's the issue?

I mean things like just exactly how will transfers between the LRT and trains work? And can those transfers be made weather-protected? It’s not reasonable to build a new train/bus station at a new LRT stop for a new LRT system in a newly grade-separated location and not provide for weather-protected transfers between the modes. Essentially, the design for the entire transit terminal should already be done. It’s fine if the exact design of the large development over and around the terminal isn’t established but the transit terminal itself should be pretty well figured out by the time construction begins on the LRT system.

[Canard]

Transit terminal is a whole separate thing...

I just meant I have an issue with letting the rapidway sit there all winter instead of practicing snow clearing techniques right now, when they could get this all sorted. There are so many little "interface" areas that aren't being cleared right now, for example, so it'd be a great chance to get these sorted before service starts next year, and it's a scramble.

[danbrotherston]

@Canard. On the other hand it would be a lot of money spent clearing something that isn't used.

@ijmorlan. Given that the LRT station is outside I don't think there can be indoor transfers. They might be under the bridge.

[Canard]

So since it was so nice out today, I went for a big long walk this afternoon.

As I walked along King St., I started to take notice of some of the crosswalks, and remembered that it was a topic of discussion here.  I noted that the crossing area along the rapidway of the LRT had been cleared in several places:
   

   

...and was even cleared in places where the sidewalk off to the side, wasn't!
   

   

   

[danbrotherston]

Here's some data. I spent a week in two towns with municipal sidewalk clearing. Despite walking about 50 kms, through multiple storms, and there were some mediocre sidewalks to be sure, there was only one impassable sidewalk and that was due to having a car parked on it. Upon arriving in Kitchener, within 200 meters of the train station, I'm forced to walk on the road on Victoria St. pretty bloody terrifying: (Sidewalk to the right goes nowhere, there should be a sidewalk straight ahead, but its uncleared).

   

[ijmorlan]

@Canard. On the other hand it would be a lot of money spent clearing something that isn't used.

@ijmorlan. Given that the LRT station is outside I don't think there can be indoor transfers.  They might be under the bridge.

I should have said “covered”. Given that it’s not really a buried station it’s going to be cold. But there is no good reason why anybody has to be rained on while transferring between the LRT and intercity trains and buses. Moving the LRT stop under the bridge would be a start. From there you could have stairs directly to the train platforms which obviously should be covered. But even if the LRT stop can’t be right under the bridge, the shelter structure could extend to the bridge, and/or the station itself could cover part of the road. There are many ways this could be designed to truly respect our weather patterns.

[ijmorlan]

Transit terminal is a whole separate thing...

I just meant I have an issue with letting the rapidway sit there all winter instead of practicing snow clearing techniques right now, when they could get this all sorted. There are so many little "interface" areas that aren't being cleared right now, for example, so it'd be a great chance to get these sorted before service starts next year, and it's a scramble.

Definitely. Just to be clear, are you talking about the whole rapidway, or just the areas where pedestrians (and cars, but that part seems to be mostly OK) need to cross?

[tomh009]

Here's some data. I spent a week in two towns with municipal sidewalk clearing. Despite walking about 50 kms, through multiple storms, and there were some mediocre sidewalks to be sure, there was only one impassable sidewalk and that was due to having a car parked on it.

Which towns? It would be nice to get some real data on the sidewalk clearing costs.

[Canard]

Definitely. Just to be clear, are you talking about the whole rapidway, or just the areas where pedestrians (and cars, but that part seems to be mostly OK) need to cross?

Yes - whole rapidway (so as to see the effect of who'll handle what and how the snow accumulation behaves/can be handled), as well as all crossings. A "dry run", if you will. Use a test section like in front of GRH or say, along Charles in two different places (maybe in front of the current Transit Terminal for "low curb" sections, and between Benton/Cedar for the more conventional centre sections).

Otherwise, if they do nothing this winter... then they'll be desperately trying to sort it all out weeks before opening, and I imagine there will be much fingerpointing when it all falls apart. My concern mostly is to what will happen when we get a decent snowfall? LRT Operator ploughs (somehow?) all the snow on the rapidway onto... the road? Then the road goes onto... the sidewalks? Er...? How's that gonna work?

I just don't get why they wouldn't be practicing now, even if it was just for a few weeks or something. Throw $50k or whatever at it and call it money well spent. See what the problems are, come up with a game plan over the summer, and implement in December 2017.

[ijmorlan]

Definitely. Just to be clear, are you talking about the whole rapidway, or just the areas where pedestrians (and cars, but that part seems to be mostly OK) need to cross?

Yes - whole rapidway (so as to see the effect of who'll handle what and how the snow accumulation behaves/can be handled), as well as all crossings.  A "dry run", if you will.  Use a test section like in front of GRH or say, along Charles in two different places (maybe in front of the current Transit Terminal for "low curb" sections, and between Benton/Cedar for the more conventional centre sections).

Otherwise, if they do nothing this winter... then they'll be desperately trying to sort it all out weeks before opening, and I imagine there will be much fingerpointing when it all falls apart.  My concern mostly is to what will happen when we get a decent snowfall?  LRT Operator ploughs (somehow?) all the snow on the rapidway onto... the road?  Then the road goes onto... the sidewalks?  Er...?  How's that gonna work?

I just don't get why they wouldn't be practicing now, even if it was just for a few weeks or something.  Throw $50k or whatever at it and call it money well spent.  See what the problems are, come up with a game plan over the summer, and implement in December 2017.

Given the amount of testing of everything else that will be done before any passengers are allowed on, I’d say your proposal makes a lot of sense!

Although I thought the actual plowing of the rapidway would be an automatic consequence of running trains … but that still leaves the question of where
the snow goes and what happens after.

Maybe they should have just installed heating coils under all the embedded track

[danbrotherston]

Here's some data. I spent a week in two towns with municipal sidewalk clearing. Despite walking about 50 kms, through multiple storms, and there were some mediocre sidewalks to be sure, there was only one impassable sidewalk and that was due to having a car parked on it.

Which towns? It would be nice to get some real data on the sidewalk clearing costs.

I was in the town of St. Mary's where I never saw a sidewalk plow, but sidewalks were, cleared, albeit, some poorly.  Most trails, and newer sidewalks were plowed to the pavement, but some sidewalks which are in poor physical condition (many uneven edges), have 2-3 cm of slushy snow (or hardpack snow depending on the temperature) on them, which while less than pleasant is still very passable.  I saw little damage to sod.  Their website has detailed information on when plowing is done.

http://www.townofstmarys.com/en/living-h...owing.aspx

The other was Picton, ON, which is really just an unincorporated community in the single-tier municipality of Prince Edward County (thanks Mike Harris).  Their website was almost impossible to find (thecounty.ca sounds like a tourist site), and provides little details on snow removal except that they do it.

http://www.thecounty.ca/county-residents...trictions/

I did see their sidewalk plow, it is just a small john deer tractor, not a modern sidewalk plow as larger cities might have.  It does minimal salting, but the biggest problem is Picton's sidewalks are very poor in general, so there are some places where the plow cannot even fit down the sidewalk, and the plow will go around obstacles like poles and such.  It does however clear a path through this detour, and it's usually paved.  Places where sidewalks are in good condition were plowed very clear.  There was a fair bit of sod damage.

Generally, I also found that sidewalks were occasionally icy, this is due to runoff of snow during warm days freezing at night.  I think this affects all types of cleared sidewalks, but I saw minimal salting or sanding done.

In all cases, I argue sidewalks I encountered were far more passable than those in Kitchener.  Further, sidewalk maintenance seems to impact clearing quite a bit.  This is both a bad thing, if your sidewalks are bad, a good thing, if (like I think most are here) if your sidewalks are good, and yet another reason for keeping sidewalks in good condition.

[Pheidippides]

What is the rationale that pedestrian signals should not be closer than 215m (I've often seen this threshold in regional documents)? To maintain traffic flow/keep the green wave? Avoiding visual clutter/overwhelming the driver? In this day in age wouldn't be easy simply tie pedestrian signals that are really close together so that only one of the crossings can be activated within a certain period (e.g. a green wave cycle) relative to the others? The road users don't get overly slowed down by having to stop at potentially more than one pedestrian crossing in a given road section and the pedestrians get a known and safe break in traffic at regular intervals and have more routes across a road.

The example I think of is Bridgeport. There are traffic signals at Weber and Regina, in addition to pedestrian signals at Devitt and Peppler. As it stands the spacing between signals is:
Weber to Devitt = 250m
Devitt to Peppler = 350m
Peppler to Regina = 180m

With the Laurel Trail in between the two pedestrian crossings Bridgeport could really use another signal as well. The lack of a signal at the Laurel Trail at Bridgeport is a huge bottleneck for trail users (I, and many others, often cut over to Peppler because it is faster and safer than waiting for a gap) .


Plus, as it stands the signals at Peppler and Regina are already too close together based on the regional guideline, 


At the very least the Peppler signal should be moved to the Laurel Trail then you'd have more even spacing of the crossings:
Weber to Devitt = 250m
Devitt to Laurel Trail = 250m
Laurel Trail to Regina = 290m




Why does Victoria at West/Strange still not have pedestrian crossing cycles by default? Why do you have to push the beg button at such a busy intersection? Especially when the two signal cycles are so disproportionate in length (Victoria east/west seems about 2x as long as West/Strange north/south). It such a pain to get to that intersection half a second too late have to decide to cross "illegally" against the don't walk and take a chance that drivers are going let you cross without whipping SB off of Strange to WB on Victoria or bolting on the green to make a left ahead of oncoming traffic NB on West to WB on Victoria or SB on Strange to EB Victoria, or to have to wait two full cycles to cross "legally" and safely. I don't think I've ever come through that intersection without seeing someone waiting to cross (or at the IHT crossing) and it would be a simple, next to no cost fix, until further improvements can be implemented in that area.