King-Victoria Transit Hub

[danbrotherston]

It's not approved yet, it's only the preferred proposal.

But the $43M option would be quite basic. Yes, you could catch a train there, but it would be more akin to the Gaukel St transit terminal (or the old Scott St terminal!) rather than what we are looking at here.

I remember being jammed into the old Scott St terminal on cold days & nights as a kid.  That place was quite a few rungs below "quite basic", that's for sure!

Where was this station?

The Scott St. in Kitchener and Waterloo are nowhere near a railway that I know of?

[GarthDanlor]

I remember being jammed into the old Scott St terminal on cold days & nights as a kid.  That place was quite a few rungs below "quite basic", that's for sure!

Where was this station?

The Scott St. in Kitchener and Waterloo are nowhere near a railway that I know of?

Bus Station at Duke & Scott

[jeffster]

Where was this station?

The Scott St. in Kitchener and Waterloo are nowhere near a railway that I know of?

Bus Station at Duke & Scott

That old terminal was a hole. It was literally a hunk of junk. Damn, I had hoped I would have forgot about that place. What an upgrade the Charles Street Terminal was. Mind you, the old terminal was ideally located for when you did your shopping at Market Square. That mall was never the same after the terminal left.

[danbrotherston]

Where was this station?

The Scott St. in Kitchener and Waterloo are nowhere near a railway that I know of?

Bus Station at Duke & Scott

Oh right...buses...lol...

Thanks!

[panamaniac]

I remember being jammed into the old Scott St terminal on cold days & nights as a kid.  That place was quite a few rungs below "quite basic", that's for sure!

Where was this station?

The Scott St. in Kitchener and Waterloo are nowhere near a railway that I know of?

It was a small building at the corner of King and Scott Sts.  Back in the day, Kitchener’s buses started their routes there.  Iirc, it had a small waiting room and public toilets, along with a wicket to buy bus tickets.

[Spokes]

Wasn't there originally discussion of having some retail in the transit component, or am I misremembering?

[danbrotherston]

Wasn't there originally discussion of having some retail in the transit component, or am I misremembering?

Do you mean in the original proposal, with the partner? Or with the later region only proposal?  I don't recall there being any retail in the region only proposal.

I get the sense that the region does not like doing that kind of thing...(just see the discussion on childcare providers)

Of course, the Charles terminal contains multiple retail outlets, and such a provision would almost certainly be a good thing for the project.

I still can't get over my disappointment at the ridiculous lack of ambition for the project. I know they didn't manage to get a partner, but the fact that we're seriously going to pave a surface parking lot beside our central transit terminal just has so much symbolism, before you even consider the actual waste of doing so.

[Spokes]

I thought the Region one, but I could definitely be mixing it up.

The good thing is that the eventual development of the parking lot will assuredly have retail involved.

[westwardloo]

I heard Tom Galloway on 570 news taking about this the other week. He did briefly mention that there was an option floating around with underground parking, obviously that would increase the cost, so not sure how serious an idea that is. I am not a fan of the surface parking lot either, but it doesn't bother me that much as it is more than likely going to be built over with a private development within a decade. It is not a permanent piece of this development. Also a parking lot currently exists at the site. I am all for hating cars, but not everyone is going to take transit to get onto the go train or via, some people will drive and the current via station parking lot gets good use. I also understand that by building parking they are incentivizing drivers in some form, but realistically if there is no place for them to park and take the train they will probably just drive to there destination as oppose to taking public transit for a section of their commute. 

I do think they could have dreamed a little bigger and included some retail component.  A convenient store and a couple small fast food spots are obvious addition to a transit terminal. The pub at the old charles st terminal seemed to do good business, although it always seemed a bit grimy to me. 

I would have liked to see something like a smaller Rotterdam transit station. I also wish that Metrolinxs would have allowed the tracks to be covered to add protection from the elements. 

https://www.google.ca/maps/@51.9238751,4...!1e2?hl=en

On another note. I think the city/ region shouldn't give up on Duke st. Seems to me that Victoria is quite a bit lower than the rail tracks, could they not burry Duke under them? Obviously this would come at a cost and might cause issues with the parking lot north of the track.  Its probably not possibly from an engineering prospective now that I think about it. oh well.

[tomh009]

There is already coffee and sandwiches available at two of the four corners at King/Victoria (inside both 1 Victoria and the pharmacy building) so I don't know how well another coffee/fast food spot would do on the same corner.

[westwardloo]

There is already coffee and sandwiches available at two of the four corners at King/Victoria (inside both 1 Victoria and the pharmacy building) so I don't know how well another coffee/fast food spot would do on the same corner.

I get that point, not sure I support idea that people transferring from the ion to GO or via want to cross the road twice to get a coffee. Personally I think convenience of getting a coffee or a sandwich in the transit terminal would trump going to either of these locations. Not sure on the volume of riders traveling through the new terminal, but surely it would be large enough to support some form of retail in addition to those two locations?

[panamaniac]

There is already coffee and sandwiches available at two of the four corners at King/Victoria (inside both 1 Victoria and the pharmacy building) so I don't know how well another coffee/fast food spot would do on the same corner.

But a spot or two to grab a coffee will be part of the terminal.

[danbrotherston]

I heard Tom Galloway on 570 news taking about this the other week. He did briefly mention that there was an option floating around with underground parking, obviously that would increase the cost, so not sure how serious an idea that is. I am not a fan of the surface parking lot either, but it doesn't bother me that much as it is more than likely going to be built over with a private development within a decade. It is not a permanent piece of this development. Also a parking lot currently exists at the site. I am all for hating cars, but not everyone is going to take transit to get onto the go train or via, some people will drive and the current via station parking lot gets good use. I also understand that by building parking they are incentivizing drivers in some form, but realistically if there is no place for them to park and take the train they will probably just drive to there destination as oppose to taking public transit for a section of their commute. 

I do think they could have dreamed a little bigger and included some retail component.  A convenient store and a couple small fast food spots are obvious addition to a transit terminal. The pub at the old charles st terminal seemed to do good business, although it always seemed a bit grimy to me. 

I would have liked to see something like a smaller Rotterdam transit station. I also wish that Metrolinxs would have allowed the tracks to be covered to add protection from the elements. 

https://www.google.ca/maps/@51.9238751,4...!1e2?hl=en

On another note. I think the city/ region shouldn't give up on Duke st. Seems to me that Victoria is quite a bit lower than the rail tracks, could they not burry Duke under them? Obviously this would come at a cost and might cause issues with the parking lot north of the track.  Its probably not possibly from an engineering prospective now that I think about it. oh well.

If they were just leaving the existing parking, then sure, I wouldn't be too upset about it. But we are going to spend millions of dollars repaving it, such an enormous waste.

As for Duke, the only component I feel it needs is active transportation. It is in no way an important vehicle corridor, closing it to cars is fine, and Frankly, would even enhance active transportation options. According to Tom an active transportation tunnel is currently planned.

[ac3r]

I do think they could have dreamed a little bigger and included some retail component.

Yeah, seriously. A train station with no retail? I guess nobody involved has ever left the country before. When I lived in Germany, pretty much the only place you could get groceries on weekends or after 8PM was at the train station. If you were just on the subway, a streetcar, an intercity train or a high speed train and stopped at a station, it is expected there are places to eat, rest, buy a book/jacket/flowers/falafel/newspapers/wine, use a washroom, buy a place to sleep for the night, find out information or whatever it may be. Any city of roughly our size in Europe has a train station with multiple retail stores and they're extremely popular destinations even if you're not specifically using transit.

I'm obviously a cynic when it comes to development in North America, but I imagine this train station we're building will become basically a ghost town you only go to in order to catch a train or bus. It's so boring, ugly and sterile looking I can't imagine anyone wanting to spend time there for any reason besides that. Nobody is going to be going there to hang out, look at the fountains or enjoy the concrete public square.

[plam]

I do think they could have dreamed a little bigger and included some retail component.

Yeah, seriously. A train station with no retail? I guess nobody involved has ever left the country before. When I lived in Germany, pretty much the only place you could get groceries on weekends or after 8PM was at the train station.

Also because nothing else (almost) was allowed to be open on weekends or after 8. Train stations and airports are the options, along with gas stations.