King-Victoria Transit Hub

[Smore]

Also, Waterloo St closure joins the parcels for the Transit Hub (btwn Victoria and tracks)

[plam]

I don't think it's quite a replacement for the old train 89. That one used to leave at 10pm and provided another option for coming back from Montreal on Sunday. This one seems much earlier.

[Spokes]

By May 2014 the concepts had been altered and only two put forth:



Concept 1





Concept 2

Taking a look at these designs, is having residential right on the train line a good idea, would people have an issue living there?

[Canard]

I would pay a premium to live there! Then again, I love trains.

[Square]

Does anyone know the reasons that Kitchener doesn't have buildings higher than 19 stories?

[mpd618]

Taking a look at these designs, is having residential right on the train line a good idea, would people have an issue living there?

Some people would, others don't have a problem or actually enjoy the rumbling of trains. That said, I think the kind of residential this site really needs is a large hotel.

[MidTowner]

When you're in a high-rise, train noise is less of an issue. I know that, in the Intercontinental Hotel in Toronto, a few floors up you can look practically straight down at the yards and not hear the trains. Maybe it has something to do with the fact that, like here, it's a station area and so nothing is traveling at high speeds.

This isn't like buying a single-family home with a backyard on the train line. People who choose to live here will do so because of the proximity to rail service, which means trains.

mpd618, I think a hotel would be a great idea. If the area does become more business-orientated, those travelers visiting on business by public transit will not be very well-served. I know that the Delta is only a short hike (and the Walper), but very-close proximity is important. If a few more offices spring up, I bet that a hotel could make a go of it here.

[tomh009]

I prefer concept A, with the oval profile of the second tower.  But either one should be good.


I agree that train noise should be a non-problem.  I have stayed many times at Shinagawa Prince in Japan, where you can look down at one of the busiest train stations in Tokyo from your room.  And noise is not a problem, not with proper building design and the low speeds at the station.

P.S. Did anyone notice the signage on the first renders?  "Waterloo Station" ... 

[Drake]

Does anyone know the reasons that Kitchener doesn't have buildings higher than 19 stories?

Not sure, but those concepts are 19 stories "above podium" which I interpret to mean 19 stories + however many stories the train station is. So I am guessing the answer to 19 is no. That is not the magic number.

And I like the second proposal with the 4 towers. The profile of the building will look like smoke stacks on a factory roof -- Perfect for Kitchener heritage.

[MidTowner]

The last report stated pretty clearly that the proposal would not look like those Plans. I liked the look of the second one with the four towers as well, but I don't think we really have any idea what it will look like.

With Waterloo Street closed and construction beginning on the King Street overpass, this is getting exciting. Supposedly an RFQ will be issued this coming autumn and a short list of proponents will be chosen by the end of the year. If construction really does start in early 2017, it's going to be six or more years of constant construction and change for this area specifically, and the Region generally.

[Spokes]

What actually gets constructed will likely be totally different than what they are showing in those concept drawings. A lot will depend on the mixed uses and the proportions of each that are marketable and actually get developed. The sketches are just to give an idea of what might be possible. It would be interesting if they had a contest to see who could come up with the best development and the winner would be awarded the rights to develop the site.

I agree.  Although I'd love to see something like these two proposals built.

So, if, for the sake of argument, these were the two proposals on the table, which of the two would everyone like better, A or B?   Something totally different?  What is your vision for the hub?

View both options here

[Spokes]

Does anyone know the reasons that Kitchener doesn't have buildings higher than 19 stories?

Demand I'd guess?  It's certainly not a zoning issue as far as I know.

[Spokes]

When you're in a high-rise, train noise is less of an issue. I know that, in the Intercontinental Hotel in Toronto, a few floors up you can look practically straight down at the yards and not hear the trains. Maybe it has something to do with the fact that, like here, it's a station area and so nothing is traveling at high speeds.

This isn't like buying a single-family home with a backyard on the train line. People who choose to live here will do so because of the proximity to rail service, which means trains.

mpd618, I think a hotel would be a great idea. If the area does become more business-orientated, those travelers visiting on business by public transit will not be very well-served. I know that the Delta is only a short hike (and the Walper), but very-close proximity is important. If a few more offices spring up, I bet that a hotel could make a go of it here.

I too think a hotel would be a perfect fit for this location.

It's clear that this intersection is going to be a major employment area with large companies, to be able to have someone come in on the train and stay at the hotel and walk to the office is VERY convenient.  

[Markster]

Does anyone know the reasons that Kitchener doesn't have buildings higher than 19 stories?

Demand I'd guess?  It's certainly not a zoning issue as far as I know.

Well, I don't think that the zoning currently allows you to build very high. Taking a look at some of them that are prevalent in the downtown core, I see things like maximum floor space ratios of 2.0. You would need a huge plot of land, and a very skinny building to get 20 storeys out of that.

Of course, zoning is pretty much designed to make sure that any development that changes anything has to be reviewed and approved. (See King St N for what happens when you upzone without attention to detail)

More realistically, the reason we don't see it is because developers haven't been interested in building it. Building that tall is expensive, and you need people willing to pay for it.

[MidTowner]

So, if, for the sake of argument, these were the two proposals on the table, which of the two would everyone like better, A or B?   Something totally different?  What is your vision for the hub?

I prefer the second option, but what I think is most important is that the site forms a strong street wall along both King and Victoria. The plans depict a sort of "public plaza," which I understand is important in front of an important institution like this, but which already exists on the other side at the School of Pharmacy. I would hope for a lot of close-to-street retail along both Victoria (which is across from the Kaufman surface lot which will eventually be developed) and King. I know that there is inevitably going to be some public amenity right at the corner, but I hope it's not too large and doesn't open the intersection up too much.

Apart from that, I generally like the second model with its generally decreasing heights from the corner, and residential on top of offices.