General Urban Kitchener Updates and Rumours

[danbrotherston]

There is literally no possible downtown theater that will attract suburban folks who want free parking, and are scared of downtown. The point is, there is a theater downtown, and it's great for us downtown folks, and folks who want a downtown experience, rather than a drive to suburban mall experience.

I don't even think there's value in trying to attract a suburban car dependent crowd to downtown, all they will do is clog the roads, demand free parking, and generally complain about downtown. Those who want a downtown experience will come here, or live here, or live on transit, those who want a suburban mall experience will never enjoy downtown. And there's nothing wrong with that, we have an abundance of suburbia for them to enjoy. What we lack is an abundance of downtown style living, but we are growing it.  And I don't mean to exclude people outside of downtown--there are many other areas outside of DTK where people may can live an urban--car light style of living.  I do mean to exclude people who are entierly dependent on their car for getting around.  If you want to use a car to go to the movie theater, you will probably be happier at cineplex every time. But if you don't want to use a car to get to the theater, going to cineplex is unpleasant and scary, I'm very glad that we have alternatives now.  Realistically though, nobody is being excluded, there is tons of parking downtown (too much in my opinion), and it's too easily (also in my opinion) accessible by car. People who want to come downtown, have no problem doing so. But so many people don't want to, so why should we try to attract them--we can only do so by ruining the experience that makes an urban area pleasant and unique to those who want that.

The original question was that downtown is lacking things, I think it's been explained very clearly by myself and many others that most of the things people think are missing, are in fact here...the fact that they don't replicate the suburban mall experience is a feature, not a problem.

I agree there probably are retail segments missing from downtown, but I am frequently surprised that when I think of something that is missing, I can often find a small business which actually fills that niche, but I do have to look.

I made my reply in reference to "If not, how many more years do you think it will take before DTK becomes a bustling area?", which I don't think can be done without attracting people from outside the core.

I did not suggest rolling out the asphalt carpet for drivers, I'm suggesting that core should have businesses, an environment, and overall experience that are exceptional enough to come downtown despite having an unwelcoming environment for cars. I think, with the exception of some restaurants and the occasional event, the core is not attractive in any of those areas (and this is with a quite welcoming vehicular environment, some both of us hope to see change). I'm aware my posts about DTK come across as quite negative, but I make them from the point of view of expecting improvement, and having experienced cities so much better that I felt depressed upon returning to DTK. I want Kitchener to be that good.

Your comments about not wanting car-dependent undesirables in your part of the city is quite offensive too, seeing as it's not a choice for most people, and it's a privilege to live somewhere in Canada that you don't need to depend on a car.

Also, being able to point out a business that fits a niche exists is just the bare minimum... It says nothing about the quality of that business.

You can find it offensive that I don't want to destroy our city in order to cater to those who don't want to come downtown anyway, if that's your opinion, but I will restate my comment again, because while I was very careful with my words the first time, I don't want to be missunderstood...some people do not like downtown and never will, they don't want a lively urban area, for whatever reason they prefer a suburban mall. I don't understand it, but I respect it as their preference.

In my opinion, attempting to make downtown desireable to these people can only destroy our downtown, it can never improve it. I am not talking about privilege, I am talking about preference, our city is increasingly accessible by other means, and as I pointed out, there is no restriction whatsoever on driving downtown right now, those who want this experience, can get here if they can get anywhere. I am speaking of the goals of downtown, to try and make it more attractive to those who don't want an urban feel, will necessitate loosing that urban experience. That's what we've been doing for decades, it's time to go the other way, and if done at the same time as expanding housing in transit friendly areas, and expanding transit options in other areas, nobody who wants a downtown experience is excluded.

Instead by attempting to create a suburban mall experience downtown, those of us who DO want a downtown experience are the ones who are excluded.