OTIS | 6 fl | U/C

[Spokes]

Wasn't this one of the ones that was trying to use the fee exemption?

[panamaniac]

It's located within the eligible area.

[Spokes]

But didn't construction need to start right away?

[tomh009]

But didn't construction need to start right away?

Not right away, but I think maybe six months. I did not think the fee exemption covered this area, though.

In any case, I think with the OTIS pricing Vive will be able to handle the development fees.

[panamaniac]

But didn't construction need to start right away?

Not right away, but I think maybe six months. I did not think the fee exemption covered this area, though.

In any case, I think with the OTIS pricing Vive will be able to handle the development fees.

"East" side of David down to Courtland, iinm.

[tomh009]

From the Record:

Feb. 28 marked the end of a decades-old exemption meant to encourage developers to build downtown — in the area bordered by Cameron, Victoria, Joseph and Weber streets — and increase density in the core.

[panamaniac]

Bump. Has this project died?

[jgsz]

Bump.  Has this project died?

I am very sceptical of Vive.  Besides a handful of renovations they have built nothing so far as I know.  Almost all their projects have a “Coming Soon” on them.  By the way, Otis was to start in 2019.  Putting a piece of equipment on the ground for a year is NOT the same as construction.

[taylortbb]

Bump.  Has this project died?

I am very sceptical of Vive.  Besides a handful of renovations they have built nothing so far as I know.  Almost all their projects have a “Coming Soon” on them.  By the way, Otis was to start in 2019.  Putting a piece of equipment on the ground for a year is NOT the same as construction.

The Market Flats building appears to be legitimately in progress. But you're right that everything else is renovation, though the American Block is no small reno and progressing quite significantly. Woodside Terraces is also a pretty substantial reno. Most other projects are quite small, or things they've acquired from their various predecessors.

[jgsz]

I am very sceptical of Vive.  Besides a handful of renovations they have built nothing so far as I know.  Almost all their projects have a “Coming Soon” on them.  By the way, Otis was to start in 2019.  Putting a piece of equipment on the ground for a year is NOT the same as construction.

The Market Flats building appears to be legitimately in progress. But you're right that everything else is renovation, though the American Block is no small reno and progressing quite significantly. Woodside Terraces is also a pretty substantial reno. Most other projects are quite small, or things they've acquired from their various predecessors.

The houses on Margaret and Victoria owned by Vive have been torn down.   So we might see something in the next ten years.

[tomh009]

Bump.  Has this project died?

I am very sceptical of Vive.  Besides a handful of renovations they have built nothing so far as I know.  Almost all their projects have a “Coming Soon” on them.  By the way, Otis was to start in 2019.  Putting a piece of equipment on the ground for a year is NOT the same as construction.

The 242 Queen St S project (on the same block) appears to be moving forward: now that ROOF has moved out, that building has been demolished and they should hopefully be able to engage the subtrades to start excavation soon. Market Flats and American Block are progressing. 270 Spadina renovation project was completed as were a lot (11!) of smaller mid-rise renovation projects.

OTIS construction start is likely waiting for them to sell a sufficient number of units to secure financing, as happens with most condos (remember how long it took for City Centre?). And, in any case, lots of projects have been delayed longer that OTIS: Arrow 2, Barra, Caroline St, City Centre, Electrohome, 36-42 Erb St, 168 King St S, Mayfair, 87 Regina St, Station Park, Sun Life, ...

[jgsz]

I am very sceptical of Vive.  Besides a handful of renovations they have built nothing so far as I know.  Almost all their projects have a “Coming Soon” on them.  By the way, Otis was to start in 2019.  Putting a piece of equipment on the ground for a year is NOT the same as construction.

The 242 Queen St S project (on the same block) appears to be moving forward: now that ROOF has moved out, that building has been demolished and they should hopefully be able to engage the subtrades to start excavation soon. Market Flats and American Block are progressing. 270 Spadina renovation project was completed as were a lot (11!) of smaller mid-rise renovation projects.

OTIS construction start is likely waiting for them to sell a sufficient number of units to secure financing, as happens with most condos (remember how long it took for City Centre?). And, in any case, lots of projects have been delayed longer that OTIS: Arrow 2, Barra, Caroline St, City Centre, Electrohome, 36-42 Erb St, 168 King St S, Mayfair, 87 Regina St, Station Park, Sun Life, ...

You seem overly optimistic.  True, the building on Spadina has been renovated but Vive has done nothing regarding the addition.  The project at Margaret and Victoria was announced in 2017.  With all the condos and apartments being built, Vive would be that last place I would look at.  I have no confidence in that company.

[tomh009]

The 242 Queen St S project (on the same block) appears to be moving forward: now that ROOF has moved out, that building has been demolished and they should hopefully be able to engage the subtrades to start excavation soon. Market Flats and American Block are progressing. 270 Spadina renovation project was completed as were a lot (11!) of smaller mid-rise renovation projects.

OTIS construction start is likely waiting for them to sell a sufficient number of units to secure financing, as happens with most condos (remember how long it took for City Centre?). And, in any case, lots of projects have been delayed longer that OTIS: Arrow 2, Barra, Caroline St, City Centre, Electrohome, 36-42 Erb St, 168 King St S, Mayfair, 87 Regina St, Station Park, Sun Life, ...

You seem overly optimistic.  True, the building on Spadina has been renovated but Vive has done nothing regarding the addition.  The project at Margaret and Victoria was announced in 2017.  With all the condos and apartments being built, Vive would be that last place I would look at.  I have no confidence in that company.

I am neither optimistic or pessimistic about OTIS. They have sold most of the desirable units but still had a lot of inward-facing units remaining last I looked. And condo construction generally needs to pre-sell a certain percentage in order to secure financing. OTIS is far from the longest wait at this point. I have no idea whether they will start this summer (COVID-19 permitting) or whether it'll take another five years.

My point was that Vive has actually completed more than a dozen projects, and they are showing progress on Market Flats, American Block and 242 Queen. But few developers, even ones much bigger than Vive, want to have much more than two or three active projects at a time.

[Bytor]

Well, construction fencing is up for OTIS, so that is something.

[Spokes]

My only concern with Vive is that they seem to have a number of projects just starting, I don't want to see them spread too thin