Walking in Waterloo Region

[danbrotherston]

I came across this video on multistage crossings on youtube recently, and while it isn't explicitly about pedestrian islands, it is relevant to the overarching discussion on how hostile we in North America make things to pedestrians and cyclists when they need to cross teh path of car traffic.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LSnSeyG74fw

Very cool. I felt like I was actually being shown the outcome of real expertise. Also I have to admit I have thought of 2-stage crossings as being bad for pedestrians; while I still think that is probably true of most North American implementations, it’s clear the problem isn’t with the 2-stage concept itself.

I do have to say that some of the signals on King St. in the LRT segment are actually pretty good. I’ve sometimes stopped for a red light which existed in order to let somebody turn left across my path, but found that by the time I had stopped the light was already turning yellow.

Yes, it really is enlightening. I raised this in my letter about traffic signals. The problem isn't with beg buttons, or anything like that, it's with how we use them, and the policies we implement to specifically disadvantage all other road users than drivers.

Ontario Traffic Man's video on the topic is excellent, another good one is from Not Just Bikes:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=knbVWXzL...tJustBikes

And here is one discussing raised crossings:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9OfBpQgL...tJustBikes

And here are two more just because they are excellent:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bAxRYrpb...tJustBikes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42oQN7fy...tJustBikes

[ijmorlan]

I had a discussion with the Kitchener engineers on this one, the reason they do this is drainage. I took some time, evaluated the crossing, then gave that my opinion is that whatever the extra cost to fix the drainage so that the crossing can be done right is worth it, because the current design is incredibly problematic.

Hmmm, I wonder if that engineer understands how drainage works. Normally, my understanding is that gutters are connected via catch basins to underground storm sewer pipes. So, it should be sufficient to put a catch basin on each side of the trail on each side of the road, rather than having a continuous gutter.

It’s just barely conceivable that something more complicated than what I describe is needed; but what is not believable is that there really is no solution. They always manage to give motor vehicle traffic a smooth path when it has to cross another motor vehicle route.

[danbrotherston]

I had a discussion with the Kitchener engineers on this one, the reason they do this is drainage. I took some time, evaluated the crossing, then gave that my opinion is that whatever the extra cost to fix the drainage so that the crossing can be done right is worth it, because the current design is incredibly problematic.

Hmmm, I wonder if that engineer understands how drainage works. Normally, my understanding is that gutters are connected via catch basins to underground storm sewer pipes. So, it should be sufficient to put a catch basin on each side of the trail on each side of the road, rather than having a continuous gutter.

It’s just barely conceivable that something more complicated than what I describe is needed; but what is not believable is that there really is no solution. They always manage to give motor vehicle traffic a smooth path when it has to cross another motor vehicle route.

Oh I'm quite sure he understands drainage quite well.

And yes, putting a catch basin on both sides of the crossing would solve the problem. Doing so would quintuple (at least) the cost of retrofitting the raised crossing because it would now require more than just surface work.

That was the whole point.

There are however, better options as well, in Edmonton, they apparently use steel plates to bridge from the curb to the crossing leaving a channel underneath for drainage. That would be much cheaper than retrofitting in new catch basins, and is something they may look into.

But I did leave him with the message that the way they were doing raised crossings now was intolerably bad for trail users.

[danbrotherston]

Sorry, but I'm going to plug my petition again.

Benton and Frederick St. are really quite awful for walking, my proposal for improving them can be found here: https://betterbenton.netlify.app/

I have a Youtube video describing the idea: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rygMdouz...rotherston (gosh I wish we could embed like twitter).

If you think we can improve Benton and Frederick Sts. please sign the petition here: https://www.change.org/betterbenton

[KingandWeber]

Sorry, but I'm going to plug my petition again.

Benton and Frederick St. are really quite awful for walking, my proposal for improving them can be found here: https://betterbenton.netlify.app/

I have a Youtube video describing the idea: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rygMdouz...rotherston (gosh I wish we could embed like twitter).

If you think we can improve Benton and Frederick Sts. please sign the petition here: https://www.change.org/betterbenton

Great proposal. Thanks for your efforts on this Dan.

[danbrotherston]

Sorry, but I'm going to plug my petition again.

Benton and Frederick St. are really quite awful for walking, my proposal for improving them can be found here: https://betterbenton.netlify.app/

I have a Youtube video describing the idea: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rygMdouz...rotherston (gosh I wish we could embed like twitter).

If you think we can improve Benton and Frederick Sts. please sign the petition here: https://www.change.org/betterbenton

Great proposal. Thanks for your efforts on this Dan.

Thanks!

[tomh009]

Sorry, but I'm going to plug my petition again.

Benton and Frederick St. are really quite awful for walking, my proposal for improving them can be found here: https://betterbenton.netlify.app/

I have a Youtube video describing the idea: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rygMdouzi_I&t=21s&ab_channel=DanielBrotherston (gosh I wish we could embed like twitter).

If you think we can improve Benton and Frederick Sts. please sign the petition here: https://www.change.org/betterbenton

Great proposal. Thanks for your efforts on this Dan.

My name is on the petition now. I agree with 90% of it and I'd much rather have exactly your proposal than the current state.

[danbrotherston]

Great proposal. Thanks for your efforts on this Dan.

My name is on the petition now. I agree with 90% of it and I'd much rather have exactly your proposal than the current state.

Thanks Tom. I'd sure be ecstatic if the region built 90% of it. ?

Edit: Hmm emojis slightly unreliable.

[tomh009]

My name is on the petition now. I agree with 90% of it and I'd much rather have exactly your proposal than the current state.

Thanks Tom. I'd sure be ecstatic if the region built 90% of it. ?

Edit: Hmm emojis slightly unreliable.

Yeah, Unicode emojis rarely seem to work so I limit myself to the menu on the left.

[KevinT]

Sorry, but I'm going to plug my petition again.

Benton and Frederick St. are really quite awful for walking, my proposal for improving them can be found here: https://betterbenton.netlify.app/

I have a Youtube video describing the idea: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rygMdouz...rotherston (gosh I wish we could embed like twitter).

If you think we can improve Benton and Frederick Sts. please sign the petition here: https://www.change.org/betterbenton

Signed, sponsored, and shared. Thanks Dan!

[danbrotherston]

Sorry, but I'm going to plug my petition again.

Benton and Frederick St. are really quite awful for walking, my proposal for improving them can be found here: https://betterbenton.netlify.app/

I have a Youtube video describing the idea: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rygMdouz...rotherston (gosh I wish we could embed like twitter).

If you think we can improve Benton and Frederick Sts. please sign the petition here: https://www.change.org/betterbenton

Signed, sponsored, and shared. Thanks Dan!

Thanks Kevin!

[dtkvictim]

When you think Victoria St can't get more unpleasant to walk.

It frustrates me that we have 0 effort into pedestrian signage and detours. Between regular maintenance and all of the new developments, I run into situations like this weekly. I can personally deal with it, annoyed, but many people can't. Imagine if we closed roads with no warning, and no signed alternative.

I think the construction at The Bow showed a reasonable alternative by closing one of the excessive lanes and putting up jersey barriers to turn the lane into a pedestrian detour.

[ijmorlan]

When you think Victoria St can't get more unpleasant to walk.

It frustrates me that we have 0 effort into pedestrian signage and detours. Between regular maintenance and all of the new developments, I run into situations like this weekly. I can personally deal with it, annoyed, but many people can't. Imagine if we closed roads with no warning, and no signed alternative.

I think the construction at The Bow showed a reasonable alternative by closing one of the excessive lanes and putting up jersey barriers to turn the lane into a pedestrian detour.

How is this not an AODA violation? The sidewalk is completely impassable for anybody in a wheelchair, and I wouldn’t really want to try it in crutches or with a walker either. I think at this location the curb lane could be used as you suggest for a temporary sidewalk.

[bravado]

When you think Victoria St can't get more unpleasant to walk.

It frustrates me that we have 0 effort into pedestrian signage and detours. Between regular maintenance and all of the new developments, I run into situations like this weekly. I can personally deal with it, annoyed, but many people can't. Imagine if we closed roads with no warning, and no signed alternative.

I think the construction at The Bow showed a reasonable alternative by closing one of the excessive lanes and putting up jersey barriers to turn the lane into a pedestrian detour.

How is this not an AODA violation? The sidewalk is completely impassible for anybody in a wheelchair, and I wouldn’t really want to try it in crutches or with a walker either. I think at this location the curb lane could be used as you suggest for a temporary sidewalk.

Take away 1 of 4 lanes of traffic? Are you mad? What if 4 ambulances needed to get by at once?

[dtkvictim]

How is this not an AODA violation? The sidewalk is completely impassible for anybody in a wheelchair, and I wouldn’t really want to try it in crutches or with a walker either. I think at this location the curb lane could be used as you suggest for a temporary sidewalk.

Take away 1 of 4 lanes of traffic? Are you mad? What if 4 ambulances needed to get by at once?

Funnily enough, the curb lane was just closed for a year for the Glove Box immediately behind where I took the photo. Even with the extra issues caused by merging two lanes into one, it never got very bad from what I saw.