King-Victoria Transit Hub

[tomh009]

I'm pleased to see bicycle parking "inside" (well, at least covered).

On the other hand, if we're spending this much, surely we could have spent just a bit more to put in a pair of escalators?

[jeffster]

New drawings, renders, and survey are now up on Engage

Drawings/Renders: https://www.engagewr.ca/9466/widgets/374...ents/44087
Survery: https://www.engagewr.ca/king-victoria-tr...ign-survey

I am at a loss for words on how I ended up as one of the dudes in one of the pictures.

Overall, not too bad. I would have expected a larger bus loop though. I also would have expected a little more parking. Other than that, though, definitely metrolink inspired design.

[danbrotherston]

[danbrotherston]

[westwardloo]

Overall I like the design. At first I wasn't a fan of the white, but it is growing on me. It will definitely be one of the nicest structures in the region. If you look at the night render on AD 605, It would be cool if they could have the exterior white panels have some sort of lighting feature to highlight the building at night.   Personally I prefer the bus entrance off duke as oppose to king. I also think it is ridiculous that the regions hand is being tied on the closing of duke street. Also can't help but notice they are realigning Victoria street, but I see no mention of a separated bike lane? The plaza is alright, I do question municipally run water features, I know when i lived in Vancouver there were so many beautiful old water features and none of them worked.  I can live with the parking for now, as long as there is a plan in place to sell the parking lot to a developer that will provide 65 underground/ garage parking in the future.

[ac3r]

They will cheap out like always and this will be completely lack lustre

This is the most boring and derivative thing I've seen proposed yet. I guess the architect really likes Santiago Calatrava?

Did you prefer the other proposals?

Nah, unfortunately none of them felt very striking to me (speaking about the most recent ones, not the original ones from a few years ago). It'll probably look good in person, but overall the design is fairly unoriginal - and far too white/grey.

[tomh009]

Overall I like the design. At first I wasn't a fan of the white, but it is growing on me.

(...) and far too white/grey.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

Personally, the white works for me since there aren't any other white buildings in the immediate area, it will provide a nice contrast.

[danbrotherston]

Overall I like the design. At first I wasn't a fan of the white, but it is growing on me. It will definitely be one of the nicest structures in the region. If you look at the night render on AD 605, It would be cool if they could have the exterior white panels have some sort of lighting feature to highlight the building at night.   Personally I prefer the bus entrance off duke as oppose to king. I also think it is ridiculous that the regions hand is being tied on the closing of duke street. Also can't help but notice they are realigning Victoria street, but I see no mention of a separated bike lane? The plaza is alright, I do question municipally run water features, I know when i lived in Vancouver there were so many beautiful old water features and none of them worked.  I can live with the parking for now, as long as there is a plan in place to sell the parking lot to a developer that will provide 65 underground/ garage parking in the future.

There are at least 3 other municipal water features in DTK right now (not including splash pads and pools), including one run by the region at the Charles Terminal. They are all operating. I think it's a question of investing in maintenance and operation. Given that this would presumably replace the Charles Terminal feature, which I assume has been running for 30+ years (the length of operation of the terminal), I am not too worried.

For closing Duke St....its' annoying that we are at the whims of metrolinx, but I'd say if the road remains open for cycling and pedestrians, that's the important use of the road. The lack of infra on Victoria doesn't surprise me, there is basically zero space around the Rumpel Felt building (the sidewalks don't even fit past the entryway), so I think the only way Victoria would get cycling infra is a road diet. But it makes it all the more important that Duke remain open because Breithaupt provides access to the terminal from Duke.

[timc]

I'm pleased to see bicycle parking "inside" (well, at least covered).

On the other hand, if we're spending this much, surely we could have spent just a bit more to put in a pair of escalators?

Considering how often the escalators at the Charles Street terminal were out of service, it's probably a good thing. :-)

[trainspotter139]

Overall I like the design. At first I wasn't a fan of the white, but it is growing on me. It will definitely be one of the nicest structures in the region. If you look at the night render on AD 605, It would be cool if they could have the exterior white panels have some sort of lighting feature to highlight the building at night.   Personally I prefer the bus entrance off duke as oppose to king. I also think it is ridiculous that the regions hand is being tied on the closing of duke street. Also can't help but notice they are realigning Victoria street, but I see no mention of a separated bike lane? The plaza is alright, I do question municipally run water features, I know when i lived in Vancouver there were so many beautiful old water features and none of them worked.  I can live with the parking for now, as long as there is a plan in place to sell the parking lot to a developer that will provide 65 underground/ garage parking in the future.

There are at least 3 other municipal water features in DTK right now (not including splash pads and pools), including one run by the region at the Charles Terminal. They are all operating. I think it's a question of investing in maintenance and operation. Given that this would presumably replace the Charles Terminal feature, which I assume has been running for 30+ years (the length of operation of the terminal), I am not too worried.

For closing Duke St....its' annoying that we are at the whims of metrolinx, but I'd say if the road remains open for cycling and pedestrians, that's the important use of the road. The lack of infra on Victoria doesn't surprise me, there is basically zero space around the Rumpel Felt building (the sidewalks don't even fit past the entryway), so I think the only way Victoria would get cycling infra is a road diet. But it makes it all the more important that Duke remain open because Breithaupt provides access to the terminal from Duke.

It's not that we are at the whims of Metrolinx, Metrolinx is at the whims of Transport Canada's grade crossing regulations. Because of the regulations, and future plans for GO/VIA train frequency, closing Duke St. would unfortunately be required since the end of the designed platform is so close to the street that keeping it open would end up resulting in grade crossing signals closing the road for extended periods every time there was a train at the station for the "just in case" scenario of platform overrun or brake failure by an eastbound train (you can see an example of this at the ION stations at Northfield and Laurier-Waterloo Park). The platform as pictured is also only 12 passenger coaches in length. The longest GO Train is 12 Bilevel coaches + 1 or 2 Locomotives, depending on the type attached (and they can be attached with 2 on one end or one on either end). That means a strong likelihood (since Metrolinx likes to configure their trains with locomotives on the eastern or southern-pointing end) of locomotives extending past the platform into the space that is the current Duke St. grade crossing.

[danbrotherston]

There are at least 3 other municipal water features in DTK right now (not including splash pads and pools), including one run by the region at the Charles Terminal. They are all operating. I think it's a question of investing in maintenance and operation. Given that this would presumably replace the Charles Terminal feature, which I assume has been running for 30+ years (the length of operation of the terminal), I am not too worried.

For closing Duke St....its' annoying that we are at the whims of metrolinx, but I'd say if the road remains open for cycling and pedestrians, that's the important use of the road. The lack of infra on Victoria doesn't surprise me, there is basically zero space around the Rumpel Felt building (the sidewalks don't even fit past the entryway), so I think the only way Victoria would get cycling infra is a road diet. But it makes it all the more important that Duke remain open because Breithaupt provides access to the terminal from Duke.

It's not that we are at the whims of Metrolinx, Metrolinx is at the whims of Transport Canada's grade crossing regulations. Because of the regulations, and future plans for GO/VIA train frequency, closing Duke St. would unfortunately be required since the end of the designed platform is so close to the street that keeping it open would end up resulting in grade crossing signals closing the road for extended periods every time there was a train at the station for the "just in case" scenario of platform overrun or brake failure by an eastbound train (you can see an example of this at the ION stations at Northfield and Laurier-Waterloo Park). The platform as pictured is also only 12 passenger coaches in length. The longest GO Train is 12 Bilevel coaches + 1 or 2 Locomotives, depending on the type attached (and they can be attached with 2 on one end or one on either end). That means a strong likelihood (since Metrolinx likes to configure their trains with locomotives on the eastern or southern-pointing end) of locomotives extending past the platform into the space that is the current Duke St. grade crossing.

I understand why they might choose to not allow a level crossing. None of that requires that the road be closed, a grade separated crossing is possible.  An active transportation tunnel is probably a lot cheaper.

[GtwoK]

This massive (and incredibly under-utilized) plaza implies that this should be a gathering space of some sort, but...... for what? There's not a damn thing around here. Across the street is a private health campus. The other way is the large, inactive wall of the Kaufman lofts, as well as a massive surface parking lot. Behind it we've got the google campus. And kitty corner there's...... one single business, a boardgame cafe.

God, this is so uninspired. You can see what the Region WANTS it to be, in some ideal scenario, but the fact of the matter is that scenario does not exist, there's nothing to do here and there's no possibility of there being anything to do here in the future, given all the surrounding space is now occupied by completely inactive residential buildings

[tomh009]

This massive (and incredibly under-utilized) plaza implies that this should be a gathering space of some sort, but...... for what? There's not a damn thing around here. Across the street is a private health campus. The other way is the large, inactive wall of the Kaufman lofts, as well as a massive surface parking lot. Behind it we've got the google campus. And kitty corner there's...... one single business, a boardgame cafe.

So, no need for public spaces? Don't need Vogelsang Green? The Karl-Zehr-Platz is unnecessary? Because there is not a damn thing next to them? (Not sure what exactly should be next to them, though.)

As for people in the area, there are a lot of them working at Google. More of them living at Kaufman and 1 Victoria. And yet others studying in the pharmacy building. And more yet will be living and working at Station Park -- and in the second-phase development of the hub.

[panamaniac]

This massive (and incredibly under-utilized) plaza implies that this should be a gathering space of some sort, but...... for what? There's not a damn thing around here. Across the street is a private health campus. The other way is the large, inactive wall of the Kaufman lofts, as well as a massive surface parking lot. Behind it we've got the google campus. And kitty corner there's...... one single business, a boardgame cafe.

God, this is so uninspired. You can see what the Region WANTS it to be, in some ideal scenario, but the fact of the matter is that scenario does not exist, there's nothing to do here and there's no possibility of there being anything to do here in the future, given all the surrounding space is now occupied by completely inactive residential buildings

This massive (and incredibly under-utilized) plaza implies that this should be a gathering space of some sort, but...... for what? There's not a damn thing around here. Across the street is a private health campus. The other way is the large, inactive wall of the Kaufman lofts, as well as a massive surface parking lot. Behind it we've got the google campus. And kitty corner there's...... one single business, a boardgame cafe.

So, no need for public spaces? Don't need Vogelsang Green? The Karl-Zehr-Platz is unnecessary? Because there is not a damn thing next to them? (Not sure what exactly should be next to them, though.)

As for people in the area, there are a lot of them working at Google. More of them living at Kaufman and 1 Victoria. And yet others studying in the pharmacy building. And more yet will be living and working at Station Park -- and in the second-phase development of the hub.

To be fair, this plaza as well as Vogelsang and Francis Greens would benefit from a kiosk cafe suited to three season use.  This new plaza might even be big enough for a small glass structure that could operate year round.  Although this new plaza should see quite a bit of pedestrian traffic, I should think.

[danbrotherston]

This massive (and incredibly under-utilized) plaza implies that this should be a gathering space of some sort, but...... for what? There's not a damn thing around here. Across the street is a private health campus. The other way is the large, inactive wall of the Kaufman lofts, as well as a massive surface parking lot. Behind it we've got the google campus. And kitty corner there's...... one single business, a boardgame cafe.

God, this is so uninspired. You can see what the Region WANTS it to be, in some ideal scenario, but the fact of the matter is that scenario does not exist, there's nothing to do here and there's no possibility of there being anything to do here in the future, given all the surrounding space is now occupied by completely inactive residential buildings

So, no need for public spaces? Don't need Vogelsang Green? The Karl-Zehr-Platz is unnecessary? Because there is not a damn thing next to them? (Not sure what exactly should be next to them, though.)

As for people in the area, there are a lot of them working at Google. More of them living at Kaufman and 1 Victoria. And yet others studying in the pharmacy building. And more yet will be living and working at Station Park -- and in the second-phase development of the hub.

To be fair, this plaza as well as Vogelsang and Francis Greens would benefit from a kiosk cafe suited to three season use.  This new plaza might even be big enough for a small glass structure that could operate year round.  Although this new plaza should see quite a bit of pedestrian traffic, I should think.

Yeah, I think this is a subtle discussion. We need more green open spaces downtown, I'm glad a plaza will be part of this. I do think the plaza could be more activated, I'd say there are a few things around, the University *IS* a major destination and also a major employer--and students are the type to mill around a plaza, plus Kaufman and One Vic have lots of people, and there are other employers nearby.

Food carts (not trucks!) are a great idea, as far as I know there are only a few of these in the city, one at the home hardware on Park St...I used to stop there on walks sometimes. As well as one occasionally in the uptown square.

I'd say the plaza will be orders of magnitude more heavily used than the parking lot next too it, but it would probably improve the plaza if the parking lot was developed into an actual development as well.