King-Victoria Transit Hub

[Momo26]

Very nice, thank you. That gives a really good sense of things. Did anyone else notice an overpass by the GO Train platforms? Does it go just to the other side of King for LRT riders to hop off/on the Fairview bound LRT? It's too bad the LRT doesn't run right through the hub...they probably considered various styles that may have created an overhang over that piece of King to make it feel more meshed. Unless the overpass is covered, snow could be an issue in winter.

[panamaniac]

The plaza is going to be much larger than I realized.
The interior is so stark - if they're not going to put in a cafe, then they need to find something else - how about display cases for works from KWAG or exhibits from the Regional History Museum?

[ac3r]

Loaning out art is a huge legal and insurance headache, I don't think they'd bother doing that but they definitely need something.

[Bytor]

Very nice, thank you. That gives a really good sense of things. Did anyone else notice an overpass by the GO Train platforms? Does it go just to the other side of King for LRT riders to hop off/on the Fairview bound LRT? It's too bad the LRT doesn't run right through the hub...they probably considered various styles that may have created an overhang over that piece of King to make it feel more meshed. Unless the overpass is covered, snow could be an issue in winter.

There is to be a pedestrian overpass alongside the train bridge as part of this project to get to the other side of Central Station.

[LesPio]

Region cobbling together funding for Kitchener transit hub.

https://www.therecord.com/news/waterloo-...t-hub.html

Looks like the Record is talking about funding for $106 Million ....Years ago...I was under the impression that the Province was paying for $40 million and that was to cover the cost. Years ago.. I was also under the impression that the RFP stated that Ball Construction was too expensive...It rather strange that $106 Million is Ok now.

[danbrotherston]

Region cobbling together funding for Kitchener transit hub.

https://www.therecord.com/news/waterloo-...t-hub.html

Looks like the Record is talking about funding for $106 Million ....Years ago...I was under the impression that the Province was paying for $40 million and that was to cover the cost. I was also under the impression that the RFP stated that Ball Construction was too expensive...It rather stranger that $106 Million is Ok now.

Honestly, this is looking like a pretty serious quagmire.

I don't like the design, so I'm a little biased obviously, but we're spending over a 100 million on....almost nothing, a bus loop, waiting building, plaza, way way over budget.

This boggles the mind, is nobody questioning this?

How much does it cost to build a building like, say, the six storey office building beside the TD. That's a high end building, but vastly more ambitious than our transit station. Is it seriously an order of magnitude more than 100 million?

[ijmorlan]

Region cobbling together funding for Kitchener transit hub.

https://www.therecord.com/news/waterloo-...t-hub.html

Looks like the Record is talking about funding for $106 Million ....Years ago...I was under the impression that the Province was paying for $40 million and that was to cover the cost. I was also under the impression that the RFP stated that Ball Construction was too expensive...It rather stranger that $106 Million is Ok now.

Honestly, this is looking like a pretty serious quagmire.

I don't like the design, so I'm a little biased obviously, but we're spending over a 100 million on....almost nothing, a bus loop, waiting building, plaza, way way over budget.

This boggles the mind, is nobody questioning this?

How much does it cost to build a building like, say, the six storey office building beside the TD.  That's a high end building, but vastly more ambitious than our transit station. Is it seriously an order of magnitude more than 100 million?

The Quantum-Nano Centre at the University of Waterloo was $100 million. That included digging down 10m to a solid clay base and all sorts of special facilities for clean rooms mechanically isolated from the rest of the building.

There is something wrong if $100 million doesn’t buy a nice train station (with a cover over the tracks, no excuses, given that they built one temporarily just to work on the bridge), integrated with a big enough commercial and residential building to cover the mortgage payments.

And I will say that if a private developer had bought that site, there is no way they couldn’t find something to put on it which would throw off enough profit to easily pay for a train station. The Region has the additional advantage of being able to put the train station on the site themselves, which further increases the value. The site really should be the location of the first 60 story building in the Region, and I’m really not interested at all in hearing any BS about how it shadows nearby residential neighbourhoods for 5 minutes out of the day, or how the existing official plan doesn’t allow for such.

[tomh009]

Region cobbling together funding for Kitchener transit hub.

https://www.therecord.com/news/waterloo-...t-hub.html

Looks like the Record is talking about funding for $106 Million ....Years ago...I was under the impression that the Province was paying for $40 million and that was to cover the cost. Years ago.. I was also under the impression that the RFP stated that Ball Construction was too expensive...It rather strange that $106 Million is Ok now.

The original $40M was assuming that the region found a developer to develop the rest of the property, and the hub would be added onto it. Since the hub needs to be standalone, the costs are higher.

The $106M is within the range published last year -- it was something like $85-135M.

[ac3r]

Selling naming rights to the transit hub could generate some money, suggested Kitchener Mayor Berry Vrbanovic.

I can't wait to tell my friends to meet me at the Bell Let's Talk Transit Hub, the Shopify Bus Loop, the Automated Tooling Systems Plaza and so on.

[Acitta]

Selling naming rights to the transit hub could generate some money, suggested Kitchener Mayor Berry Vrbanovic.

I can't wait to tell my friends to meet me at the Bell Let's Talk Transit Hub, the Shopify Bus Loop, the Automated Tooling Systems Plaza and so on.

Maybe we should take up a collection to have it named The Waterloo Region Connected Transit Hub. I think the name would work. LOL

[danbrotherston]

Honestly, this is looking like a pretty serious quagmire.

I don't like the design, so I'm a little biased obviously, but we're spending over a 100 million on....almost nothing, a bus loop, waiting building, plaza, way way over budget.

This boggles the mind, is nobody questioning this?

How much does it cost to build a building like, say, the six storey office building beside the TD.  That's a high end building, but vastly more ambitious than our transit station. Is it seriously an order of magnitude more than 100 million?

The Quantum-Nano Centre at the University of Waterloo was $100 million. That included digging down 10m to a solid clay base and all sorts of special facilities for clean rooms mechanically isolated from the rest of the building.

There is something wrong if $100 million doesn’t buy a nice train station (with a cover over the tracks, no excuses, given that they built one temporarily just to work on the bridge), integrated with a big enough commercial and residential building to cover the mortgage payments.

And I will say that if a private developer had bought that site, there is no way they couldn’t find something to put on it which would throw off enough profit to easily pay for a train station. The Region has the additional advantage of being able to put the train station on the site themselves, which further increases the value. The site really should be the location of the first 60 story building in the Region, and I’m really not interested at all in hearing any BS about how it shadows nearby residential neighbourhoods for 5 minutes out of the day, or how the existing official plan doesn’t allow for such.

If the Quantum-Nano Centre cost 100 million to build, that's a 7 storey industrial and highly technical building, it is insane that the train station would cost that much.

Lets, stop right now, get someone to build exactly the Quantum Nano Centre on the site, we'll call the first floor the train station waiting area, and we're done...FFS...

[danbrotherston]

Anyone want to look up what the new Deflt railway station cost?

I have to imagine it is a similar price, but the scale is vastly greater:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delft_railway_station

[ac3r]

Delft cost about about 1.2 billion CAD (750 million Euros and it was just shy of 40 million over budget) in total since it has underground platforms, so it's hard to compare the two. It was consistently slammed as being a disaster due to the complications and cost. I'm not sure what the station cost when you don't include the underground platforms, but it was likely still a lot. That said, 100 million for our proposal is absurd. I have a feeling we're going to get screwed on this and end up with something very mediocre yet insanely over budget.

[LesPio]

Anyone want to look up what the new Deflt railway station cost?

I have to imagine it is a similar price, but the scale is vastly greater:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delft_railway_station

I was there in July 2015...shortly after Delft opened. It connects the railway underground(ie Direct link to airport and other connections) and walk out to the LRT and buses

[nms]

Here's a math question for which I don't know the answer: How tall a building (or buildings) would a private developer want to build on that site in order to cover the cost of a $100 million station and still make their profit (typically 10-20%)?  A 2019 Toronto Star article concluded that in order for private developers to pay for the Scarborough subway that: 

At that value [price of land per buildable square foot in Scarborough is between $30 to $50 per square foot], the scale of development required to offset the cost of building one station at $500 million would be in the magnitude of 10 million to 17 million square feet.

That amount of development is equivalent to between eight and 13 Aura towers — the 78-storey condo at Yonge and Gerrard Sts., which is for now the tallest residential building in Canada. Looking at it another way, the development required would be equal to 12 to 19 times the Honest Ed’s redevelopment site at Bloor and Bathurst Sts.

 

I would also hate for the resulting train station be jammed underneath some hulking building which would end up with a platform area that was as hospitable as the Penn Station platforms.