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10-14-2016, 06:16 PM
(This post was last modified: 10-14-2016, 06:19 PM by danbrotherston.)
(10-14-2016, 04:15 PM)clasher Wrote: (10-14-2016, 03:06 PM)Pheidippides Wrote: Looks like Krug is the next battleground for bike lanes versus vehicle storage.
http://www.therecord.com/news-story/6910...t-dilemma/
Ugh, almost every house on that section of the street has a huge driveway that should be able accommodate a few cars of their guests. Most if not all the houses also have garages. Seriously, check it out on google maps, some people have parking lots for driveways. People in older neighbourhoods somehow manage without nearly as much driveway space and street parking as these folks have. So what if they have let a few guests park around the corner or down the road a piece.
I'm not sure the resistance is based on actual need, in many cases people seem to simply oppose any change, and the lack of parking just provides a convenient objection.
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"When you are accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression."
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All of these these cycling lane discussions seem like no-brainers from a transportation point-of-view to me; this one even more so. Roads are for moving people in a variety of modes, not for storing things.
I hope the home owners recognize that those mature trees are worth far more to their property values than any amount of on-street parking, especially given the huge residential driveways and no commercial properties along that stretch.
I didn't actually see any Krug St resident opposition to plans in the article; I wonder if The Record is just trying to stir something up from a non-issue.
Everyone move to the back of the bus and we all get home faster.
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(10-14-2016, 09:55 PM)Pheidippides Wrote: All of these these cycling lane discussions seem like no-brainers from a transportation point-of-view to me; this one even more so. Roads are for moving people in a variety of modes, not for storing things.
I hope the home owners recognize that those mature trees are worth far more to their property values than any amount of on-street parking, especially given the huge residential driveways and no commercial properties along that stretch.
I didn't actually see any Krug St resident opposition to plans in the article; I wonder if The Record is just trying to stir something up from a non-issue.
There are a number of issues with this particular road, apparently the consultants didn't know it was supposed to be a cycling route when they planned it. Apparently the public consultation has already occurred. It's quite frankly, a disaster and shakes my faith in our city's planning department.
In other news a cyclist was hit at Victoria and Duke St. in Downtown Kitchener on Wednesday morning. Serious, but not life threatening injuries. Reporting indicates that cyclist was stationary and hit by a car. The driver of the car has been charged.
http://www.therecord.com/news-story/6908...kitchener/
Of course police are reporting that cyclists should wear helmets. Apparently suggesting drivers not run over cyclists wasn't really worth reporting.
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10-14-2016, 10:53 PM
(This post was last modified: 10-15-2016, 09:12 PM by clasher.
Edit Reason: dyslexia
)
Unlike Union Street it doesn't seem to have vocal resident opposition yet so that's a good thing. It's much more important to the cycling network than Union street is though, it's one of the few good places to cross the expressway to east Kitchener and it leads to a decent route to Hespeler and Guelph. Important for those folks that wanna commute to the downtown from the east side as well. I hope they can make regular unbroken lanes work the entire length of Krug.
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10-14-2016, 11:23 PM
(This post was last modified: 10-14-2016, 11:23 PM by YKF.)
How far along in the process is Krug St.? Is it possible for that 300m segment mentioned in the article or be void of on-street parking, maintain the current right-of-way width, implement proper cycling lanes and reduce the lane widths ever so slightly? Can this be done without cutting down trees?
Reading this article was frustrating. Krug Street is an excellent cycling corridor and will act as a cycling collector that'll lead to the Kitchener Market Ion station. Half-assing it and putting in sharrows or whatever else they've mentioned for the 300m segment in question will compromise a piece of cycling infrastructure that's being implemented.
On a related note, check out the Strava Heat Map (2015 data) for Krug Street. Notice the most heavily travelled stretch is the stretch that's mentioned as potentially having some "shared" cycling measures.
http://labs.strava.com/heatmap/#15/-80.4...ellow/bike
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Will they be resurfacing Krug with these changes? Cycling under the expressway during the day is a nightmare right now with all the potholes. The sudden change of light levels coupled with sunglasses make them particularly hazardous there.
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Parking is only available in a small section and primarily used on market days by non-residents. This is where I park when I go but am fine with finding an alternative if eliminated. The big issue is that the road becomes quite narrow at one point that would make it nearly impossible to have bike lanes, without cutting down a lot of mature trees, even if you narrowed the car lanes.
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(10-15-2016, 08:15 AM)creative Wrote: Parking is only available in a small section and primarily used on market days by non-residents. This is where I park when I go but am fine with finding an alternative if eliminated. The big issue is that the road becomes quite narrow at one point that would make it nearly impossible to have bike lanes, without cutting down a lot of mature trees, even if you narrowed the car lanes.
Given the road width, as I understand it, bike lanes will easily fit along with two way car traffic, in the 300 meter narrow section, if there is no parking on either side, no need to widen the road.
The only thing the road would need to be widened for is to keep parking for that segment.
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I travel this route on a regular basis. There is no parking allowed in the narrow section. I also believe that there is no room to safely put in bike lanes. I'm all for this being a bike route as I'm sure most of the neighbourhood would be as well based on the demographic of it's residents. I just don't know what is the appropriate solution.
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10-15-2016, 11:27 AM
(This post was last modified: 10-15-2016, 11:27 AM by Canard.)
Interestingly, the "cyclist dismount/$110 fine "signs at Cortland/sterling have been ripped off by a vandal.
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(10-15-2016, 09:11 AM)creative Wrote: I travel this route on a regular basis. There is no parking allowed in the narrow section. I also believe that there is no room to safely put in bike lanes. I'm all for this being a bike route as I'm sure most of the neighbourhood would be as well based on the demographic of it's residents. I just don't know what is the appropriate solution.
I am simply giving you what was said by a member of the Kitchener Cycling Advisory Committee, staff stated the road is 10 meters wide, which with a 2 meter parking lane gives 8 meters, more than enough room for two car lanes, but insufficient for bike lanes and car lanes. Without the car parking, plenty of room for both.
It is possible you are thinking of a different narrow section, I'm not sure.
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(10-15-2016, 12:31 PM)danbrotherston Wrote: (10-15-2016, 09:11 AM)creative Wrote: I travel this route on a regular basis. There is no parking allowed in the narrow section. I also believe that there is no room to safely put in bike lanes. I'm all for this being a bike route as I'm sure most of the neighbourhood would be as well based on the demographic of it's residents. I just don't know what is the appropriate solution.
I am simply giving you what was said by a member of the Kitchener Cycling Advisory Committee, staff stated the road is 10 meters wide, which with a 2 meter parking lane gives 8 meters, more than enough room for two car lanes, but insufficient for bike lanes and car lanes. Without the car parking, plenty of room for both.
It is possible you are thinking of a different narrow section, I'm not sure.
The Record article refers to the stretch from Dumfries to East. I haven't been to this stretch in a long time, but checking it on Google Maps' satellite imagery shows no on-street parking.
That being the case, I think some trees need to go. I do love trees, and mature trees are very nice, but the reality is that trees, too, have a limited lifespan, and those mature trees might need to get cut down 10, 20 or 30 years from now (just a guess as I haven't seen them in person). Cutting them down now, and planting some new ones, maybe slightly larger than typical, seems like the best solution to make this street usable. As a biking route, Krug is much better than Frederick, I think.
The second-best option? Make those two blocks one-way (car) traffic only to allow room for bicycle lanes.
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(10-17-2016, 10:10 AM)tomh009 Wrote: (10-15-2016, 12:31 PM)danbrotherston Wrote: I am simply giving you what was said by a member of the Kitchener Cycling Advisory Committee, staff stated the road is 10 meters wide, which with a 2 meter parking lane gives 8 meters, more than enough room for two car lanes, but insufficient for bike lanes and car lanes. Without the car parking, plenty of room for both.
It is possible you are thinking of a different narrow section, I'm not sure.
The Record article refers to the stretch from Dumfries to East. I haven't been to this stretch in a long time, but checking it on Google Maps' satellite imagery shows no on-street parking.
That being the case, I think some trees need to go. I do love trees, and mature trees are very nice, but the reality is that trees, too, have a limited lifespan, and those mature trees might need to get cut down 10, 20 or 30 years from now (just a guess as I haven't seen them in person). Cutting them down now, and planting some new ones, maybe slightly larger than typical, seems like the best solution to make this street usable. As a biking route, Krug is much better than Frederick, I think.
The second-best option? Make those two blocks one-way (car) traffic only to allow room for bicycle lanes.
Not sure why you think it shows "no on street parking". Streetview doesn't show any no parking signs, and in fact shows parked cars. Just because there aren't markings on the ground doesn't mean street parking isn't permitted.
Parking is definitely permitted east of East (awkward phrasing not withstanding). The lanes are quite wide, putting in bike lanes would be no problem if parking was removed.
Making roads one way in neighbourhoods to accommodate biking I think is often a very good but overlooked idea, but I think it would have just as much opposition as any other plan. It even has the bigger bonus of reducing the needed paving width, saving us some money and greenspace. That being said, in this instance, given that it's linking across the highway, it is maybe not the best situation (not to mention it would disrupt bus routes). Of course, that area has reasonable connectivity across the highway by car already, so maybe it's not such a big deal.
As for cutting down trees, I tend to flip flop on this issue. I think you are right, that trees shouldn't cause us to make infrastructure choices that will live on far beyond the trees lifespan, but i also understand the importance of mature trees. It's a tough call.
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