Change Kitchener's name back to Berlin?

[Rainrider22]

I like the idea of a name change, but I think the time for a name change is long gone, we have been called Kitchener for 100 years and we are fairly well known through out the world. If Kitchener was to be renamed though I think Zehrville, Zehrcity or Schneiderlin would sound cool.

1. It would be much better to wait for Waterloo to come to its senses and name the newly amalgamated city "Waterloo".   Perhaps in time for the bicentennial in 2116.....
   

Agreed it is time to have a real discussion about joining the two cities however, the name Waterloo is not an acceptable alternative. Waterloo is captured in the Regions name.   A unified city requires a separate identity from the name of the Region. As a resident of Kitchener I find it bothersome that everyone outside of our region thinks everything is Waterloo. 

Just my two cents worth

[panamaniac]

1. It would be much better to wait for Waterloo to come to its senses and name the newly amalgamated city "Waterloo".   Perhaps in time for the bicentennial in 2116.....
   

Agreed it is time to have a real discussion about joining the two cities however, the name Waterloo is not an acceptable alternative. Waterloo is captured in the Regions name.   A unified city requires a separate identity from the name of the Region. As a resident of Kitchener I find it bothersome that everyone outside of our region thinks everything is Waterloo. 

Just my two cents worth

The ball on amalgamation is and should remain, imo, in Waterloo's court.  Nothing good could come of trying to pressure the city for something it's residents have so recently indicated they are not willing to contemplate.

[MidTowner]

The ball on amalgamation is and should remain, imo, in Waterloo's court.  Nothing good could come of trying to pressure the city for something it's residents have so recently indicated they are not willing to contemplate.

I do think that it makes such logical sense that the province should make it happen. A majority of the new municipality's inhabitants would be in favour of the new boundaries, which is not always the case right after such a change.

But that's not likely with the current regime. If we get a new provincial government one day who is keen on "eliminating duplication of services" by merging municipalities, maybe it would happen. Otherwise, it will be up to Waterloo to come to it, and it will be a long wait.

[jgsz]

I do think that it makes such logical sense that the province should make it happen. A majority of the new municipality's inhabitants would be in favour of the new boundaries, which is not always the case right after such a change.

But that's not likely with the current regime. If we get a new provincial government one day who is keen on "eliminating duplication of services" by merging municipalities, maybe it would happen. Otherwise, it will be up to Waterloo to come to it, and it will be a long wait.

Many of the very expensive services are already provided at the Regional level.  More can be added and in time Kitchener, Waterloo and Cambridge will be like Bridgeport, Centreville and Doon.  A name that placates the parochially minded.

[plam]

The ball on amalgamation is and should remain, imo, in Waterloo's court.  Nothing good could come of trying to pressure the city for something it's residents have so recently indicated they are not willing to contemplate.

I do think that it makes such logical sense that the province should make it happen. A majority of the new municipality's inhabitants would be in favour of the new boundaries, which is not always the case right after such a change.

But that's not likely with the current regime. If we get a new provincial government one day who is keen on "eliminating duplication of services" by merging municipalities, maybe it would happen. Otherwise, it will be up to Waterloo to come to it, and it will be a long wait.

Does that ever really work? Economies of scale I mean.

[MidTowner]

Does that ever really work? Economies of scale I mean.

You can find a lot of people much more knowledgeable than I am (this is an understatement) who have written a lot about that question, using various case studies from Ontario and elsewhere. I think it must work in some cases, but far fewer than some people believe. In Ontario, I think it hasn’t worked in a lot of the forced mergers that were implemented when the idea was in fashion. I think it has in Toronto, though, and that citizens of Etobicoke and Scarborough are paying less for better services than they would have had the mega city not been formed.

[DHLawrence]

Many of the very expensive services are already provided at the Regional level.  More can be added and in time Kitchener, Waterloo and Cambridge will be like Bridgeport, Centreville and Doon.  A name that placates the parochially minded.

Or we can go the Mississauga route with all the different parts keeping some identity but forming a greater whole.

Incidentally, I don't see the name Cambridge lasting long after amalgamation except maybe to refer to the Hespeler Road-Pinebush-Franklin area. Forty years on, the rest is still Preston, Hespeler, Galt, and Blair, and is likely to stay that way for a long time to come.

[tomh009]

Does that ever really work? Economies of scale I mean.

Ever?  Yes, absolutely.  Always?  Absolutely not.  A lot of it depends on how small the pre-existing units are, and how well the amalgamation is done.

In our case, the benefits would be less as we already have a strong regional government that provides a lot of services: those would not see any benefit at all.  In fact, I think the way to go forward for Waterloo Region would be to gradually move more services to the regional level, while allowing all the cities and townships to keep their own identities.

[jgsz]

Story in The Record about Kitchener when it was called Berlin.

[Memph]

Many of the very expensive services are already provided at the Regional level.  More can be added and in time Kitchener, Waterloo and Cambridge will be like Bridgeport, Centreville and Doon.  A name that placates the parochially minded.

Or we can go the Mississauga route with all the different parts keeping some identity but forming a greater whole.

Incidentally, I don't see the name Cambridge lasting long after amalgamation except maybe to refer to the Hespeler Road-Pinebush-Franklin area. Forty years on, the rest is still Preston, Hespeler, Galt, and Blair, and is likely to stay that way for a long time to come.

Although I'm not sure how much of Mississauga's residents at the time of its amalgamation were tied to a particular community as opposed to just being random subdivisions in suburban Toronto. Only Streetsville and Port Credit were incorporated as towns and those two towns were only about 10% of Mississauga population at the time. The rest were living in the rural townships, some in small villages but probably a good chunk in suburban style subdivisions that weren't really attached to any of the historic villages. IE I'm not sure how many lived in villages like Clarkson and Cooksville vs subdivisions like Park Royal and Applewood.

[KevinL]

 In fact, I think the way to go forward for Waterloo Region would be to gradually move more services to the regional level, while allowing all the cities and townships to keep their own identities.

Agreed. My first choice would be fire services; the police and paramedics are regional, why can't we amalgamate the rest of the emergency triangle?

[jamincan]

Fire services seem to be strangely powerful, politically. I'm not exactly sure why.

[kitborn]

For a good history of what happened before and after the renaming of Berlin, here is a book to consider. 

Check out The Battle for Berlin on Goodreads. https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/24043624

I am in favour of some recognition of the original name being used as you enter the original city boundaries of Berlin.

[ijmorlan]

Fire services seem to be strangely powerful, politically. I'm not exactly sure why.

Do you think they would be opposed to amalgamating the fire services and making them a Regional responsibility? That is, are you suggesting that part of the reason this is not much discussed is because they would oppose it?

I think I agree with many here on amalgamation: amalgamation itself should not be attempted, but there may be specific services that should be amalgamated. Those who are in favour of amalgamation need to explain why we shouldn’t start with certain services, on the basis that there is no obligation to amalgamate everything else.

My top two “obvious” candidates for amalgamation (by which I mean changing from city/township responsibility to Regional) are the libraries and the fire services. Of course if either of these were actually discussed I would want a careful study of the costs and benefits, and the outcome might convince me that amalgamation of these services is a bad idea, but I think they merit study.

[jgsz]

If there are more posts on amalgamation it should probably have its own thread.  They're interesting but off-topic.