[Uptown] Erb/Bridgeport/Caroline/Albert Reconstruction

[Markster]

This is going to be a biggie, so should have its own thread.

Erb/Bridgeport/Caroline/Albert Reconstruction

Public Consultation Centre #1
Wednesday, January 27th, 2016, 5:00p.m. to 8:00 p.m.
The Canadian Clay and Glass Museum, 25 Caroline Street North, Waterloo

Planning & Works supporting documentation (page 46-78)
http://www.regionofwaterloo.ca/en/region...df#page=46

Proposal
Click to embiggen
   
(yeah, I watermarked it. This thing took a lot of effort!)

Discussion from the General Roads thread:

Some interesting proposed changes to Bridgeport/Caroline between King and Erb, Erb between Caroline and King, and Albert between Erb and Bridgeport for 2018.
http://www.regionofwaterloo.ca/en/region...df#page=46

I'm not a fan. Anyone who's driven on Bridgeport between King/Albert at rush hour knows this. Bridgeport backs up halfway to Weber! Not the place to lose a lane. Unless they're suggesting 2 lanes + Right-Turn Lane onto Albert... Basically turning the 3rd lane into the right-turn Lane only. That I would be on board with. I hate when people stop in that lane going straight through so nobody can turn right when the light is red. It'd also be helpful to turn the right lane to a right-turn lane only at King, too. The dynamics of these two intersections should be studied carefully. I'd be happy to go into more detail why but again, if you've driven through here when it's busy you already know why and what happens.

The backup is almost entirely in just the right-most lane, particularly between King and Erb; motorists here are apparently afraid of merging. In either case, I doubt removing a lane will make any difference because of the fact that the congestion is almost entirely confined to a single lane as it is. Improving cycling facilities on Bridgeport and Erb, however, should be a priority and this is a nice start.

Much of the current constriction and backup is due to LRT construction and the closure of Caroline. Hopefully some of that will ease up soon.

That said ISTM we need a dedicated right turn lane from Bridgeport to Regina, King, Albert and Erb. The problem is that people who want to turn right either clog up the right lane well before their cross street or they stay in the middle lane until the last possible moment, then force themselves into the right lane. Neither approach is optimal. Perhaps we need something akin to highway exits with appropriate signage and "ramp" lanes. Someone who wants to turn right at, say Erb, would see signs  as far back as Peppler with that keeps Erb "exit" traffic in the middle lane until Albert, then "ramps" them to the right lane as they actually approach Erb. Presuming that drivers obey these signs this would prevent aggressive drivers from jockeying for position, butting into traffic, and thus backing up everyone else.

Some interesting proposed changes to Bridgeport/Caroline between King and Erb, Erb between Caroline and King, and Albert between Erb and Bridgeport for 2018.
http://www.regionofwaterloo.ca/en/region...df#page=46

I'm not a fan of adding multi-use trails where they don't belong. I think that the north side of Bridgeport/Caroline is not a good place for an MUT, especially given the large number of driveways/intersections crossing that path.

I'm not a fan of adding multi-use trails where they don't belong. I think that the north side of Bridgeport/Caroline is not a good place for an MUT, especially given the large number of driveways/intersections crossing that path.

Hmm? I count 3 on Caroline between Albert and Erb and 1 per block (2 total) between King and Albert.

I really like the idea of preventing right-turning vehicles from stopping traffic. I can always see vehicles turning right from Bridgeport to Regina, King, and Albert causing great (unnecessary) delays to all traffic. As this reconstruction makes Bridgeport only two lanes west of King, on page 72 (or 27 of 30) you can see that the rightmost lane of Bridgeport becomes right-only at King.

I would ask whether it would also make sense to ease pedestrian crossing and further disincentivize wrong-way driving by making the curb at Albert/Bridgeport, on the southeast corner, a right angle one, instead of a sweeping one, as no vehicle movements are allowed which would require any sweeping curve.

The biggest reason I see time and time again for the delays, even in normal construction-free driving, are at the Erb/Caroline intersection. It is pedestrian-heavy enough that both the northbound and southbound Caroline traffic looking to head west on Erb is delayed and confused by pedestrians. The island on the northwest corner, and the LRT-related west-side Erb crossing being farther west, both of these ameliorate this slightly.

Accepting that it would have to be done in a way which did not endanger pedestrians and cyclists, I wonder if there isn't a way to channelize the pavement so that cars turning westbound from Caroline to Erb can only:
A) wind up in the inside lane when going northbound-to-westbound
B) wind up in the outside lane when going southbound-to-westbound

That is the single biggest reason for backups. Enough people illegally (though never ticketed) turn wide when heading onto westbound Erb, both right and left turning vehicles. If it could be channelized such that you could only ever turn into the proper lane, much of the hesitation would stop, and I'd estimate possibly more than doubling the throughput of the turn.

...
Accepting that it would have to be done in a way which did not endanger pedestrians and cyclists, I wonder if there isn't a way to channelize the pavement so that cars turning westbound from Caroline to Erb can only:
A) wind up in the inside lane when going northbound-to-westbound
B) wind up in the outside lane when going southbound-to-westbound

That is the single biggest reason for backups. Enough people illegally (though never ticketed) turn wide when heading onto westbound Erb, both right and left turning vehicles. If it could be channelized such that you could only ever turn into the proper lane, much of the hesitation would stop, and I'd estimate possibly more than doubling the throughput of the turn.

This is my thoughts as well. A dedicated traffic signal for the right turn would help as well, hopefully that's part of the changes.

It appears that there is room for an island that could separate the two lanes of traffic and funnel southbound traffic into the right lane on Erb and northbound into the left lane. This could shorten the pedestrian crossing; however, I'd be concerned about the conflict between pedestrians and right-turning traffic. It would likely still be safer overall since drivers would be able to focus on looking for pedestrians and cyclists; however, it would be easier for them to blast through the intersection too.

Just so everyone's on the same page, I pieced together the pages of the Planning & Works document.  It was quite a job, as they've been stretched and squished to varying degrees to fit on those pages.  I had to undo that mangling:



My main concerns are:

• What's with the ultra-wide unused pavement on Erb?  The supporting documentation claims that there is space for an 'on-road bi-directional cycle track, but that doesn't explain the layover-bay style curbs in front of the church.
  
• Albert has no legal way to bicycle south to Erb, despite being an otherwise very convenient bike route.
  
• There's a stub of a bike lane and bike box on Caroline, but no one using the MUT can get to those, so... what exactly is the deal here?  Are bikes supposed to be on the MUT, or the road?
  
• The Caroline/Erb Intersection needs to allow straight-through travel for bikes coming south on the MUT.  That crossing way to the east won't cut it.
  
• The sharrow situation on Erb is laughable. That right hand lane that appears east of Caroline/Erb is traditionally a speedway for impatient drivers. I'd say make that lane a dedicated turn lane for the mall parking, to prevent that, while allowing bicycles to continue through.
  
• Pedestrian crossing infrastructure is dismissed at Erb/Albert and Caroline/Dupont, because the current roads are terrifying to cross, and so "pedestrian counts are too low". I think they will find that people will actually start crossing the street now, when they're no longer super-wide speedways.
  

Things I like:

• Caroline is the right size.  There are only two real ways to go at Caroline/Erb, (straight, or turn right) so you only need two lanes to feed that. The chokepoint is the single-lane right hand turn, and no number of lanes will fix that.
  
• Albert/Erb finally makes it possible to cross Albert without taking your life into your hands.  It's nuts, trying to follow Erb's north sidewalk right now. In. Sane.
  
• The MUT is wonderful, and connects to a couple trailheads that go into Waterloo Park. The driveways are few, and low-volume, so they're no concern. It's Great. Perfect. Print it.
  

Hmm? I count 3 on Caroline between Albert and Erb and 1 per block (2 total) between King and Albert.

Unless something has changed, the recommended maximum amount of driveways and sidestreets for MUT is 3 per km. In the ~500 m from King to Erb, there are 10 crossings.

Now, I did count Albert Street twice there because of the right turn channel, and I guess the driveway at the old mill doesn't really count. And maybe you even would count the two separate driveways at the ex-Fox and Fiddle as one. But that still leaves 7 crossings in this stretch of just over half a kilometre.

Unless something has changed, the recommended maximum amount of driveways and sidestreets for MUT is 3 per km. In the ~500 m from King to Erb, there are 10 crossings.

So thankfully, this then indicates that something has changed, and that there's understanding that MUTs are possible in more places than simply alongside suburban arterials.  The intersection of Albert is presumably going to be signalled, and hopefully gets a crossride like at Laurel Trail/Peppler/Erb.  The others are relatively low-volume, and people are just going to have to learn that an asphalt strip means to watch out for traffic coming from both directions (just like a road).

I really like that this MUT fixes some connectivity problems for the trails on the north side of PI and the lake. They used to just end at the sidewalk on Bridgeport. Either you sidewalk-cycle, or you jump the curb into the busy right lane of Caroline.

[SammyOES]

I'm a big fan of the changes for turning right at King and Albert. I really hate having to decide which cars I'm going to fight with / annoy when coming down Bridgeport before King and planning on turning right at Albert.

[insider]

Wow. I live right there and at first glance all these changes are very welcome! I was even planning to get organized with neighbours to approach the Region to propose many of them

[Canard]

I'm a big fan of the changes for turning right at King and Albert.  I really hate having to decide which cars I'm going to fight with / annoy when coming down Bridgeport before King and planning on turning right at Albert.

This.

You're all going to hate me for saying this, but one pedestrian crossing at Regina or King throws the whole system into disarray.  If I'm on Bridgeport and want to turn right on Albert, for example - when should I get in the right lane?  The way it is now, if I stay in the right lane past the kink in the road at Sobeys, it takes about 2 light cycles to get through Regina, then another 2 to get through King because only a few cars can get through between pedestrians (who are very rightfully entitled to be) walking along Bridgeport crossing at Regina or King.  So, the situation SammyOES comes up - I pop one lane to my left, over to the middle lane, where I can typically easily make it through the timed lights at Regina and then King... but then I have to cut back in rather abruptly past King (hoping that someone got stuck turning right from the right lane for a Pedestrian) to get back into the right lane to queue up to turn right on Albert - except bam, someone's NOT crossing at King - meaning I now don't have an opening, and uh-oh, someone's crossing at Albert, so there are 10 cars backed up there and I have no where to go.  It's absolutely terrible.  Worst spot to drive in the Region that I can think of.  I go through this several times a week picking up my husband at university.  I'm seriously thinking I should get a dashcam just so I can make a video clip of how terrible the human dynamics are in this area.

(Also, because I didn't mention it before - thanks for the fantastic image editing skills, Markster! Great map.)

[jamincan]

The problem is that people don't use the available space. There are three lanes on Bridgeport, but there might as well be one the way most drivers in the region use it, since we all are apparently supposed to queue politely in the right lane behind the people that got there first.

[MidTowner]

I (generally) like the proposed changes, but we should really just convert Erb and Bridgeport back to two-way. Then we wouldn't have to discuss motorists having to change lanes and jockey for position on an expressway that's actually in one of our urban cores.

These things are way too wide and fast. Convert them to two-way, then manage bottlenecks by disallowing some turns on some streets at some hours as needed.

[Markster]

The problem is that people don't use the available space. There are three lanes on Bridgeport, but there might as well be one the way most drivers in the region use it, since we all are apparently supposed to queue politely in the right lane behind the people that got there first.

There are a lanes on Bridgeport, but only one turn lane from Caroline to Erb. And that's where the majority of the traffic past Albert wants to go. Sure, it's annoying that most people choose the right lane before Peppler, but I don't fault them for having to deal with the degenerate situation of 3 lanes where only the right hand one is useful.

The proposed layout looks much better:
If you want Regina or King, you take the right lane.
If you want Albert or Erb, you take the middle lane.
If you are turning left or continuing on Caroline, you take the left lane.

[Canard]

The problem is that people don't use the available space. There are three lanes on Bridgeport, but there might as well be one the way most drivers in the region use it, since we all are apparently supposed to queue politely in the right lane behind the people that got there first.

Please read my post above and tell me how I can be a better driver, as I must be doing something wrong.

The proposed layout looks much better:
If you want Regina or King, you take the right lane.
If you want Albert or Erb, you take the middle lane.
If you are turning left or continuing on Caroline, you take the left lane.

The more I think about it the more I agree, Markster - that's a good summary. I still worry that traffic backing up around the corner of Bridgeport between Erb and Albert will cause the people trying to turn right onto Albert to spill out into the middle lane, though - right back through King.

[dunkalunk]

Hopefully someone can find something more current from Grandlinq, but here's a close-up of the Erb-Caroline intersection from the ION project agreement (Schedule 15-2 Appendix I Alignment & OMSF Drawings Part 2).

   

According the the plans, NB>WB left turns from Caroline St to Erb have been restricted to everything except buses (presumably on an advanced signal) and that other left-turning traffic would be rerouted to Father David Bauer. As such, a double-right channel should be possible, however, if the Region has determined that only one is needed, that's OK too.

Assuming there will be a dedicated right turn signal, one addition I'd like to see is a signalized crosswalk across Caroline to the north of Dupont in order to better connect the Waterloo Park trail network to the northern half of Uptown. I'm not sure how many people try to cross here (it's pretty dangerous currently), but I doubt an additional crosswalk would have any impact on traffic that is already stopped.

Actually, come to think of it, a formal crosswalk is also needed at Albert/Dupont/Dorset.

[curious_look]

I am so glad they are at least proposing these changes! I used to live there and navigate those intersections as a pedestrian, cyclist, and car driver and frankly Albert/Bridgeport and Albert/Erb as a pedestrian an cyclist were frustrating at best and terrifying at worst - particularly in the dark (and the snow - balancing on the median as cars whip by).

[SammyOES]

The problem is that people don't use the available space. There are three lanes on Bridgeport, but there might as well be one the way most drivers in the region use it, since we all are apparently supposed to queue politely in the right lane behind the people that got there first.

This isn't the problem with the Regina/King/Albert turning issue. I'm not even sure its the issue when turning right onto Erb.

But I agree its a general problem. Zipper merge whenever and wherever possible!

[SammyOES]

Assuming there will be a dedicated right turn signal, one addition I'd like to see is a signalized crosswalk across Caroline to the north of Dupont in order to better connect the Waterloo Park trail network to the northern half of Uptown. I'm not sure how many people try to cross here (it's pretty dangerous currently), but I doubt an additional crosswalk would have any impact on traffic that is already stopped.

I don't know of the best solution, but something needs to be done for this. It's crappy coming out of a nice park on a trail and all of a sudden being in the middle of a bunch of traffic with no great path forward.

It looks like the proposed changes with the multi-use path would help this though.

[Pheidippides]

In general most of the suggested changes look to be huge improvements over the current state; however, I feel like this would kill any future chance to make both Erb and Bridgeport bi-directional though which I think is still the ideal solution.

What about adding a diagonal crossing from north-west (Clay and Glass) to south-east (Waterloo Town Square) parallel to the LRT track that is activated whenever the Ion comes through? The intersection will be at full stop every few minutes anyway, why not let the activate transportation users take full advantage of the stoppage?

[BuildingScout]

In general most of the suggested changes look to be huge improvements over the current state; however, I feel like this would kill any future chance to make both Erb and Bridgeport bi-directional though which I think is still the ideal solution.

I'm not sure about making these streets two way. A city does need its thoroughfares and these two connect the expressway to the city, and go through streets that are far from being pedestrianized, so I have no issue with them staying as "mini highways" with synchronized lights, something that wouldn't be possible if they were two way streets.

[MidTowner]

I'm not sure about making these streets two way. A city does need its thoroughfares and these two connect the expressway to the city, and go through streets that are far from being pedestrianized...

Could you elaborate on this? As I see it, Bridgeport and Erb terminate in Waterloo's core, and on their paths there from the expressway they bisect (or trisect, maybe) mostly residential areas. Which streets do they go through that you see as far from being pedestrianized?