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[Uptown] Erb/Bridgeport/Caroline/Albert Reconstruction
#1
This is going to be a biggie, so should have its own thread.

Erb/Bridgeport/Caroline/Albert Reconstruction

Public Consultation Centre #1
Wednesday, January 27th, 2016, 5:00p.m. to 8:00 p.m.
The Canadian Clay and Glass Museum, 25 Caroline Street North, Waterloo

Planning & Works supporting documentation (page 46-78)
http://www.regionofwaterloo.ca/en/region...df#page=46

Proposal
Click to embiggen
   

(yeah, I watermarked it. This thing took a lot of effort!)

Discussion from the General Roads thread:

(12-07-2015, 12:18 AM)Pheidippides Wrote: Some interesting proposed changes to Bridgeport/Caroline between King and Erb, Erb between Caroline and King, and Albert between Erb and Bridgeport for 2018.
http://www.regionofwaterloo.ca/en/region...df#page=46

(12-07-2015, 08:26 AM)Canard Wrote: I'm not a fan. Anyone who's driven on Bridgeport between King/Albert at rush hour knows this. Bridgeport backs up halfway to Weber! Not the place to lose a lane. Unless they're suggesting 2 lanes + Right-Turn Lane onto Albert... Basically turning the 3rd lane into the right-turn Lane only. That I would be on board with. I hate when people stop in that lane going straight through so nobody can turn right when the light is red. It'd also be helpful to turn the right lane to a right-turn lane only at King, too. The dynamics of these two intersections should be studied carefully. I'd be happy to go into more detail why but again, if you've driven through here when it's busy you already know why and what happens.

(12-07-2015, 08:39 AM)jamincan Wrote: The backup is almost entirely in just the right-most lane, particularly between King and Erb; motorists here are apparently afraid of merging. In either case, I doubt removing a lane will make any difference because of the fact that the congestion is almost entirely confined to a single lane as it is. Improving cycling facilities on Bridgeport and Erb, however, should be a priority and this is a nice start.

(12-07-2015, 08:59 AM)ookpik Wrote: Much of the current constriction and backup is due to LRT construction and the closure of Caroline. Hopefully some of that will ease up soon.

That said ISTM we need a dedicated right turn lane from Bridgeport to Regina, King, Albert and Erb. The problem is that people who want to turn right either clog up the right lane well before their cross street or they stay in the middle lane until the last possible moment, then force themselves into the right lane. Neither approach is optimal. Perhaps we need something akin to highway exits with appropriate signage and "ramp" lanes. Someone who wants to turn right at, say Erb, would see signs  as far back as Peppler with that keeps Erb "exit" traffic in the middle lane until Albert, then "ramps" them to the right lane as they actually approach Erb. Presuming that drivers obey these signs this would prevent aggressive drivers from jockeying for position, butting into traffic, and thus backing up everyone else.

(12-07-2015, 09:58 AM)timc Wrote:
(12-07-2015, 12:18 AM)Pheidippides Wrote: Some interesting proposed changes to Bridgeport/Caroline between King and Erb, Erb between Caroline and King, and Albert between Erb and Bridgeport for 2018.
http://www.regionofwaterloo.ca/en/region...df#page=46

I'm not a fan of adding multi-use trails where they don't belong. I think that the north side of Bridgeport/Caroline is not a good place for an MUT, especially given the large number of driveways/intersections crossing that path.

(12-07-2015, 11:03 AM)plam Wrote:
(12-07-2015, 09:58 AM)timc Wrote: I'm not a fan of adding multi-use trails where they don't belong. I think that the north side of Bridgeport/Caroline is not a good place for an MUT, especially given the large number of driveways/intersections crossing that path.

Hmm? I count 3 on Caroline between Albert and Erb and 1 per block (2 total) between King and Albert.

(12-07-2015, 11:36 AM)Viewfromthe42 Wrote: I really like the idea of preventing right-turning vehicles from stopping traffic. I can always see vehicles turning right from Bridgeport to Regina, King, and Albert causing great (unnecessary) delays to all traffic. As this reconstruction makes Bridgeport only two lanes west of King, on page 72 (or 27 of 30) you can see that the rightmost lane of Bridgeport becomes right-only at King.

I would ask whether it would also make sense to ease pedestrian crossing and further disincentivize wrong-way driving by making the curb at Albert/Bridgeport, on the southeast corner, a right angle one, instead of a sweeping one, as no vehicle movements are allowed which would require any sweeping curve.

The biggest reason I see time and time again for the delays, even in normal construction-free driving, are at the Erb/Caroline intersection. It is pedestrian-heavy enough that both the northbound and southbound Caroline traffic looking to head west on Erb is delayed and confused by pedestrians. The island on the northwest corner, and the LRT-related west-side Erb crossing being farther west, both of these ameliorate this slightly.

Accepting that it would have to be done in a way which did not endanger pedestrians and cyclists, I wonder if there isn't a way to channelize the pavement so that cars turning westbound from Caroline to Erb can only:
A) wind up in the inside lane when going northbound-to-westbound
B) wind up in the outside lane when going southbound-to-westbound

That is the single biggest reason for backups. Enough people illegally (though never ticketed) turn wide when heading onto westbound Erb, both right and left turning vehicles. If it could be channelized such that you could only ever turn into the proper lane, much of the hesitation would stop, and I'd estimate possibly more than doubling the throughput of the turn.

(12-07-2015, 12:11 PM)curiouschair Wrote:
(12-07-2015, 11:36 AM)Viewfromthe42 Wrote: ...
Accepting that it would have to be done in a way which did not endanger pedestrians and cyclists, I wonder if there isn't a way to channelize the pavement so that cars turning westbound from Caroline to Erb can only:
A) wind up in the inside lane when going northbound-to-westbound
B) wind up in the outside lane when going southbound-to-westbound

That is the single biggest reason for backups. Enough people illegally (though never ticketed) turn wide when heading onto westbound Erb, both right and left turning vehicles. If it could be channelized such that you could only ever turn into the proper lane, much of the hesitation would stop, and I'd estimate possibly more than doubling the throughput of the turn.

This is my thoughts as well. A dedicated traffic signal for the right turn would help as well, hopefully that's part of the changes.

(12-07-2015, 12:28 PM)jamincan Wrote: It appears that there is room for an island that could separate the two lanes of traffic and funnel southbound traffic into the right lane on Erb and northbound into the left lane. This could shorten the pedestrian crossing; however, I'd be concerned about the conflict between pedestrians and right-turning traffic. It would likely still be safer overall since drivers would be able to focus on looking for pedestrians and cyclists; however, it would be easier for them to blast through the intersection too.

(12-07-2015, 12:44 PM)Markster Wrote: Just so everyone's on the same page, I pieced together the pages of the Planning & Works document.  It was quite a job, as they've been stretched and squished to varying degrees to fit on those pages.  I had to undo that mangling:



My main concerns are:
  • What's with the ultra-wide unused pavement on Erb?  The supporting documentation claims that there is space for an 'on-road bi-directional cycle track, but that doesn't explain the layover-bay style curbs in front of the church.
  • Albert has no legal way to bicycle south to Erb, despite being an otherwise very convenient bike route.
  • There's a stub of a bike lane and bike box on Caroline, but no one using the MUT can get to those, so... what exactly is the deal here?  Are bikes supposed to be on the MUT, or the road?
  • The Caroline/Erb Intersection needs to allow straight-through travel for bikes coming south on the MUT.  That crossing way to the east won't cut it.
  • The sharrow situation on Erb is laughable. That right hand lane that appears east of Caroline/Erb is traditionally a speedway for impatient drivers. I'd say make that lane a dedicated turn lane for the mall parking, to prevent that, while allowing bicycles to continue through.
  • Pedestrian crossing infrastructure is dismissed at Erb/Albert and Caroline/Dupont, because the current roads are terrifying to cross, and so "pedestrian counts are too low". I think they will find that people will actually start crossing the street now, when they're no longer super-wide speedways.

Things I like:
  • Caroline is the right size.  There are only two real ways to go at Caroline/Erb, (straight, or turn right) so you only need two lanes to feed that. The chokepoint is the single-lane right hand turn, and no number of lanes will fix that.
  • Albert/Erb finally makes it possible to cross Albert without taking your life into your hands.  It's nuts, trying to follow Erb's north sidewalk right now. In. Sane.
  • The MUT is wonderful, and connects to a couple trailheads that go into Waterloo Park. The driveways are few, and low-volume, so they're no concern. It's Great. Perfect. Print it.

(12-07-2015, 01:23 PM)timc Wrote:
(12-07-2015, 11:03 AM)plam Wrote: Hmm? I count 3 on Caroline between Albert and Erb and 1 per block (2 total) between King and Albert.

Unless something has changed, the recommended maximum amount of driveways and sidestreets for MUT is 3 per km. In the ~500 m from King to Erb, there are 10 crossings.

Now, I did count Albert Street twice there because of the right turn channel, and I guess the driveway at the old mill doesn't really count. And maybe you even would count the two separate driveways at the ex-Fox and Fiddle as one. But that still leaves 7 crossings in this stretch of just over half a kilometre.

(12-07-2015, 01:43 PM)Markster Wrote:
(12-07-2015, 01:23 PM)timc Wrote: Unless something has changed, the recommended maximum amount of driveways and sidestreets for MUT is 3 per km. In the ~500 m from King to Erb, there are 10 crossings.

So thankfully, this then indicates that something has changed, and that there's understanding that MUTs are possible in more places than simply alongside suburban arterials.  The intersection of Albert is presumably going to be signalled, and hopefully gets a crossride like at Laurel Trail/Peppler/Erb.  The others are relatively low-volume, and people are just going to have to learn that an asphalt strip means to watch out for traffic coming from both directions (just like a road).

I really like that this MUT fixes some connectivity problems for the trails on the north side of PI and the lake. They used to just end at the sidewalk on Bridgeport. Either you sidewalk-cycle, or you jump the curb into the busy right lane of Caroline.
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[Uptown] Erb/Bridgeport/Caroline/Albert Reconstruction - by Markster - 12-07-2015, 02:24 PM

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