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HSR or Hyperloop?
#1
Interesting article in the National Post today. A 10 minute trip to Toronto that leaves whenever. Is the concept of High Speed Rail DOA? Dare to dream...

This Los Angeles company says its version of Elon Musk’s Hyperloop will be running by the end of the decade

Rick SPENCE February 19, 2016 12:52 PM ET

At the World Government Summit held in Dubai, breathtaking new technologies were on everyone’s lips: life extension, 3 D printed body parts, humanoid robots, the UAE’s 2020 mission to Mars, “gecko” grips that let you climb up the side of buildings, and even sensors in your brain that enable you to communicate with others just with your thoughts.


But probably the most stunning revelation was the news that in the sluggish field of ground transportation, a near-supersonic technology that first surfaced in 2012 should be ready for full-scale, full-speed testing before the end of this year.

That technology is the Hyperloop, a pod-in-a-tube that will use friction-free near-vacuum conditions and linear-induction motors to whisk people and cargo between cities at speeds of up to 1,100 km per hour — and possibly more.

When the concept first emerged, it seemed just another one of those sci-fi jetpack/domed-cities concepts that never seem to work out. But with the fertile mind of Elon Musk (PayPal, Tesla, SpaceX) laying out the scientific case in a white paper, and bequeathing the concept to anyone who wants to follow up (because he’s too busy), many groups are working on real-world applications. And no one more aggressively than Los-Angeles-based Hyperloop Technologies.

“Hyperloop is real. Hyperloop is happening,” said Brogan BamBrogan, HT’s co-founder and chief technology officer, to a rapt audience of government and business leaders at the World Government summit. He said his company has already solved a number of “hardcore” problems, such as how to levitate a passenger vehicle, and how perfect your vacuum should be. He says the company’s “Kitty Hawk moment” — a full-scale test of the technologies — should take place at a testing facility north of Las Vegas by year-end.


Although it has no official relationship with Elon Musk, HT has the next best thing: executives who have worked with Musk. BamBrogan, for instance, was a senior staff engineer at SpaceX, which built a spaceship in less than 10 years that is able to dock with the International Space Station and return safely to earth.

First proposed to run between San Francisco and Los Angeles, hyperloop is a whole new type of transportation. It’s not quite urban transit — HT is proposing lightweight pods that would carry about 12 people. That’s because hyperloop is most likely to run on elevated tubes (tunneling is possible, but much more expensive). The lighter the vehicles, the more affordable the system will be.
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Still, Brogan admits no one knows what the most likely applications will be. Will hyperloop work best over short, medium or long distances? Will it be more suited to passengers or freight? HT is keeping its options open, he says: “We’re asking governments around the world, how would you use this system to best help your people?”

BamBrogan framed the flexibility of hyperloop in a way guaranteed to intrigue the Summit audience, most of whom were from Dubai or other Emirate communities: “Imagine travelling between Dubai and Abu Dhabi (160 km apart) in 15 minutes. And you’ll be able to leave whenever you want. You don’t have to worry about missing your train, because there’s always another pod leaving in a few minutes.”

The cost? “We can deploy and operate hyperloop for less than the cost of high-speed rail,” says BamBrogan. But then he added, “As we innovate deeply, we think we can cut those costs by 50 per cent.” Given those savings, he says, “rides could nearly be free.”

The audience in Dubai had all the same questions you might have: How safe is it? What if there’s a malfunction? What would happen in an earthquake? BamBrogan reassured his listeners that HT is putting safety first by citing an array of sensors, fail-safes and impact-dampeners.

Toronto city officials, now planning a number of high-profile transit projects, can rest secure that high-volume, short-distance LRT and subway with lots of stops will probably not be displaced by hyperloop any time soon. In retrospect, however, hyperloop might have made more sense than the $456-million Union-Pearson Express airport train, which has been largely running empty since its launch last year. It’s also been suggested that hyperloop might be the best way to connect Toronto with the growing high-tech hub of Waterloo. And in his presentation BamBrogan mused about connecting Calgary and Edmonton with a hyperloop that would whisk people between those cities faster than the current air shuttles.

In an interview with the Financial Post the day after his presentation, BamBrogan declined to discuss specific projects that HT is working on. But he did say that interest is high, and that some potential clients are willing to write cheques as soon as the technology is proven. BamBrogan said he was particularly pleased that a senior Dubai business leader had just appropriated one of HT’s slides for a presentation on the region’s economic future.
BamBrogan says HT expects to have its first commercial system up and running by the end of the decade. To meet its ambitious goals, the company appointed a new CEO last fall —former Cisco Systems president Rob Lloyd — and it is now working to close a US$80-million financing round.

Once the first systems are in operation, BamBrogan foresees underground hyperloops, undersea tubes, and even hybrid services that transport people during the day and cargo at night. “There is not just one hyperloop,” he says. “There will be a lot of ways you can deploy it.” Like any good technologist he is sure many new and significant applications will emerge that no one today can yet imagine.

But one thing’s for sure. “We don’t want to be a theme-park ride,” says BamBrogan. “We don’t want to be a 12-mile airport connector. We want to be of real value.”
_____________________________________
I used to be the mayor of sim city. I know what I am talking about.
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#2
Hyperloop. Is. Super. Cool.

This is science fiction-level stuff -- almost as good as transfer booths or stepping discs -- so I'm very excited that they are at least building a test track. Here's hoping that it works as well as they expect it to!
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#3
If Hyperloop can support branching/intermediate stops, then interesting.

If not, there's no point in supporting it over high speed rail.

You want the high speed transit connection between Toronto and KW to probably include a stop at the airport. The HSR is also supposed to terminate in London. Can hyperloop support branching so that:
Toronto-London
Toronto-KW
Toronto-Airport Area
London-KW
London-Airport Area
KW-Airport Area

Can these route pairs be made?

If not, then hyperloop is probably useful for super long-distance pairs, like Toronto-Montreal or Toronto-Ottawa, where you would still need higher-speed rail on the ground to deal with intermediate destinations.

It's why I don't support the LA-SF hyperloop in theory, because it ignores that the California HSR is supposed to support and service about a half dozen intermediate destinations call Fresno and San Jose.
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#4
Not to be a Debbie Downer, but this whole thing is far too early in development to be seriously thought about, at least not yet. Let's get the test tracks built, yes, and see how safe and functional it is - but not until that is all worked out, and production starts in a mainstream capacity, will I entertain it as an option.
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#5
(02-19-2016, 11:52 PM)DKsan Wrote: If Hyperloop can support branching/intermediate stops, then interesting.

If not, there's no point in supporting it over high speed rail.

Hyperloop is point-to-point, no branching.  But as with air travel (also point-to-point), you achieve branching by having intermediate stations/hubs.  With stations in London, Kitchener, Pearson and downtown Toronto, you would travel from Kitchener to Toronto by hopping off a pod at Pearson, and onto another one bound for downtown.  The concept has very frequent pod departures so the time lost in changing is not bad, and made up by the high speeds.

(Whether California HSR really needs as many intermediate stops as have been proposed is a whole other discussion ...)
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#6
(02-19-2016, 11:56 PM)KevinL Wrote: Not to be a Debbie Downer, but this whole thing is far too early in development to be seriously thought about, at least not yet. Let's get the test tracks built, yes, and see how safe and functional it is - but not until that is all worked out, and production starts in a mainstream capacity, will I entertain it as an option.

I don't think anyone here is proposing to build one yet.  But the fact that they plan to have the test track functional by the end of the year is very exciting in my book.  If I'm lucky, this will be reality before I die.  Smile

One significant advantage of the Hyperloop concept over HSR is that the tubes/pods are far lighter than rail, making a raised implementation (with no level crossings and no right-of-way issues) a possibility.  I think we all know how significant those two issues are for all rail (not just HSR) in Ontario; avoiding them altogether is an even bigger advantage than the outright speed of Hyperloop, I think.
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#7
(02-20-2016, 11:55 AM)tomh009 Wrote:
(02-19-2016, 11:52 PM)DKsan Wrote: If Hyperloop can support branching/intermediate stops, then interesting.

If not, there's no point in supporting it over high speed rail.

Hyperloop is point-to-point, no branching.  But as with air travel (also point-to-point), you achieve branching by having intermediate stations/hubs.  With stations in London, Kitchener, Pearson and downtown Toronto, you would travel from Kitchener to Toronto by hopping off a pod at Pearson, and onto another one bound for downtown.  The concept has very frequent pod departures so the time lost in changing is not bad, and made up by the high speeds.

(Whether California HSR really needs as many intermediate stops as have been proposed is a whole other discussion ...)

If you look at really old air travel schedules you'll see that they used to be like rail schedules, with lots of intermediate stops. For the most part no one does that anymore except for remote routes.

Changing trains is really not so bad when you have frequent departures and synchronized schedules. So hyperloop ought to be good that way.
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#8
UW engineering team is participating in the Hyperloop pod competition, and has made it to the prototype step of the competition (top 31 teams of 1200 were selected):
http://www.itbusiness.ca/news/university...mmer/66850
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