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If there is a will, there's a way.
Clearly we lack the will.
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I've only driven on Davenport, but I like it far more after the road diet than before. I think it has benefited more than just cyclists and pedestrians and also functions nicely as a test and example for future road construction.
Are there drawings for the widening of Ottawa and also reconstruction further west (I think that's also slated to happen?)? It would be interesting to see whether any measures are taken to make it more friendly toward pedestrians and cyclists, particularly west of River Road.
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When you compare the road diet on Davenport to the road diet on Margaret, one realizes the Davenport diet is an example of what to do and Margaret is an example of what not to do.
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(06-25-2016, 08:50 PM)Drake Wrote: When you compare the road diet on Davenport to the road diet on Margaret, one realizes the Davenport diet is an example of what to do and Margaret is an example of what not to do.
What are the differences that make it so? Enquiring minds want to know ...
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06-26-2016, 10:07 AM
(This post was last modified: 06-26-2016, 10:11 AM by Drake.)
Just my opinion, but the Margaret Street diet doesn't have the air of professionalism the Davenport diet does. Margaret was not turned into a boulevard with lanes separated by trees and gardens like Davenport. The paint used on Margaret when new looked to be hastily put down and confusing. I recall driving on Margaret and having the impression vandals had pulled a prank. The lanes were all over the place and it was very confusing. Now, a couple years later that paint is almost completely gone and the myth of the poorly designed bicycle lanes are what remains.
In my memory, Margaret was painted before Davenport. Feel free to correct me on this. My memory is imperfect.
Observe:
Margaret 1
The lanes are narrower, the paint is washed out. This bicycle lane veers out into traffic to allow for onstreet parking. Cars, like the honeybadger, don't care. They drive over the bicycle lanes. Cyclists beware.
Margaret 2
Here is on street parking. I suggest it makes little sense in this location. 3 spots on the street are next to a parking lot that conservatively holds over 100 vehicles. Respect for private property owners aside, reality needs a check here. In a scenario where cars are parked on the street and a vehicle is exiting this parking lot, the cyclist is at risk due to visibility issues. The city has a hand in creating this liability scenario.
Observe the previous lane markers hastily painted over causing great confusion to people driving at regular road speeds. What lane am I in? Where should I drive?
Davenport 1
Lane markers clearly visible. Wide( r ) lanes for vehicles and bicycles. Identifiers at driveway for motorists that plead for their attention to announce cyclist lanes, etc. Years later, the paint is not washed out.
Davenport 2
Clearly marked lanes. Logical layout. Good signage.
Bonus:
I travelled the length of Davenport via streetview specifically looking for cyclists and pedestrians.
One texting pedestrian oblivious to the Googlecar
One cyclist on sidewalk outside the diet area
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I wonder if Margaret is in the queue to be resurfaced and maybe they just slapped this "solution" together and used some cheap paint they got on discount. I agree some of of the on-street parking should be reconfigured. I think Margaret is wide enough they could put the bike lanes in between the sidewalk and the street parking at places where they need it but most of the houses seem to have big driveways I wonder how often the street parking is actually used... I assume removing the street parking would result in the same backlash that happened with Union street.
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(06-26-2016, 10:07 AM)Drake Wrote: ... Davenport...Margaret...
Interesting comparison.
Bonus: I am no longer one of the few people on Earth who had not seen "the honeybadger".
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(06-26-2016, 10:33 AM)clasher Wrote: I wonder if Margaret is in the queue to be resurfaced
Like totally dude.
Quote:and maybe they just slapped this "solution" together and used some cheap paint they got on discount.
As the link notes, the province banned good paint.
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I wonder what people think of the East Ave. "Diet"? Can we compare that to Margaret and Davenport?
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(06-26-2016, 04:07 PM)Canard Wrote: I wonder what people think of the East Ave. "Diet"? Can we compare that to Margaret and Davenport?
The city of Kitchener's road painting department leaves something to be desired.
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As another anecdote, I traveled King or Davenport to get to work for five years. Whenever I drove, I took Davenport, same as cycling, seeing both before and after shots of whatever I could take notice (and probably a bit more notice of pedestrians and cyclists, as I biked there and liked to see how others dealt with it). Before the diet, I'd feel pressured to go at least 60, and cars would whiz by at 70 or 80, much as you still see on Lexington. I would see few pedestrians and can't recall cyclists of note.
After the diet, I absolutely noticed more of each. Any day I cycled it from Lexington to Northfield, I would tend to run into 1 or 2 cyclists going my way, and see a few more going the other way. I was pleasantly shocked when I saw both recumbent and stand-up tricycles with what I can only fathom were retirees in them, in the bike lanes, something I'd never have expected beforehand. I myself never biked there until the change occurred, as it was too much to bike both Lexington and Davenport, whereas afterwards I could cheat around the homes off Lexington and only face turning left across four lanes of 70-80km/h traffic while cycling uphill from a dead stop, followed by the bridge and changing into the left turn lane at Davenport. That part never got less harrowing.
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(06-26-2016, 05:12 PM)Drake Wrote: (06-26-2016, 04:07 PM)Canard Wrote: I wonder what people think of the East Ave. "Diet"? Can we compare that to Margaret and Davenport?
The city of Kitchener's road painting department leaves something to be desired.
Agreed. https://www.google.ca/maps/@43.4719457,-...312!8i6656
https://www.google.ca/maps/@43.4722009,-...312!8i6656
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Some notes on Davenport.
Posters who say $3M is a lot are... correct. It's pretty much a no-holds-barred model to building a complete street, and it was 2/3 funded by the Building Canada fund. Record article has expired but SSP remembers.
It's not really that road diets/complete streets have to be expensive, but the curbing and boulevards that Davenport got. There are much less expensive ways to build a complete street-- generally speaking, use more paint, and build crossing islands only instead of boulevards. It's unlikely Waterloo would have gold-plated Davenport without external funding.
BuildingScout's anecdotal observations don't match mine, but aren't exactly wrong either. I usually see a cyclist or two on Davenport when I'm biking it (which I do daily)-- but that's at rush hour. It's my impression the bike lanes here are fairly quiet, and when I head to the mall at lunchtime, I notice that I'm usually the only bike on the road then.
In constrast, there is a lot of cycling in Eastbridge neighbourhoods. And in particular, it's the norm for me these days to see at least 1, but sometimes as many as 5 or 6 people on bikes crossing the expressway on Lexington when I'm there. (And TriTAG count data backs this up, with usually around 40 bike riders crossing 7:30am - 9am.)
So, there's a lot of people biking in the area, and only a few of them make it out to Davenport. I have some thoughts about why this is too, but that's for another time.
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