Grand River Transit

[danbrotherston]

All the new phones with NFC also have a secure element, a separate processor which is supposed to be able to store this kind of info on a user device, without them being able to alter it. This include an ability to load "apps" which are also secure from each other. This emulates the behavior of the processors in the DESfire cards. One of the applications is (eventually) to replace SIM cards with an eSIM functionality, which I understand has similar security requirements to something like a fare card. So from a technical perspective it is supposed to be possible to do the stored value thing securely. I'm not sure how far along the phone vendors are on exposing this functionality though.

Perhaps the bigger issue is that given the locally stored value model, there would need to be a mechanism to move the info from a card to phone, or from phone to phone (i.e. if getting a new phone). And if your phone died, anything stored on it (passes, value) would not be able to be recovered without risk of duplication (how do you prove it it dead). Some sort of revocation mechanism might be possible though, similar to what I think is supposed to be available if you lose your card and it is registered.

*supposed to* being the key here.  GRT is unlikely to trust a third party open ecosystem to store value.  If there was a bug found in Android's implementation (or any Android phone vendor, there are hundreds), anyone could get free rides, there's nothing GRT could do to stop it, besides stop accepting that form of payment, which is much harder to do than simply not starting.

But I don't make GRT policy, I guess it's possible they'll surprise us one day.

[chutten]

To be clear for those just skimming the summaries, all of this phone-based stuff is orders of magnitude trickier than "just" allowing EasyGO Fare Card (goodness, I'm already getting tired of typing that whole thing) stored values and fare products on Presto and vice versa. Or accepting Presto stored values on GRT terminals (and vice versa). Those are totally things that can be done with available technology and minimal configuration -today-.

And we all have views about how likely we think that is to happen anytime soon.

In my opinion I do not expect contactless support or Presto interoperability (beyond the easyGO Fare Card's connect-to-GO flag) for the next, say, two years. Maybe vocal ideation about it, but no implementations.

(my reasoning being contactless support would cannibalize GRT's stored-value easyGO Fare Card market at lower margins, and Presto has shown no (public) interest in interoperability with the easyGO Fare Card)

[bgb_ca]

(my reasoning being contactless support would cannibalize GRT's stored-value easyGO Fare Card market at lower margins, and Presto has shown no (public) interest in interoperability with the easyGO Fare Card)

Easy way around that. If you tap Presto and or/credit/interac/apple pay/google pay card, charge the full $3.25 cash price, and if you tap EasyGo, you get the discounted ticket price (Which I believe is now $2.76). If you use it more than a couple times a year, its makes it worth it to get a easy-go card for most people.

[tomh009]

Why is that an issue for Android?  Because the mobile would have to emulate a card of its own, with a unique identity, stored value, and transaction history that's completely independent of your physical Presto card.  You couldn't start a trip on one and then continue with the other.

This is how Suica/PASMO works with phones, too: once you enable your phone, the card no longer works. You can't have two "cards" with the same identity.

[tomh009]

Possibly, I don't know the implementation details of Oyster, but at least here, card processors have moved to online processors.  All the payment terminals we have are online.

Payment by paper charge slips is still possible here, too. It's what our company's limo service, for example, uses.

[KevinT]

In my opinion I do not expect contactless support or Presto interoperability (beyond the easyGO Fare Card's connect-to-GO flag) for the next, say, two years. Maybe vocal ideation about it, but no implementations.

I wasn't suggesting that the two be combined, I was using Presto as an example of the limitations involved in adding mobile support to easyGO, since I'm more familiar with the Presto implementation than I am with easyGO's.  Its still too new.  :-)

[KevinL]

An update on the beta program has been promised to come in on Monday (the 19th). Presumably letting us now when the transition to full service will be...?

[danbrotherston]

An update on the beta program has been promised to come in on Monday (the 19th). Presumably letting us now when the transition to full service will be...?

Or they're opening the online portal to beta users.

[bgb_ca]

The grteasygofarecard.ca site is offline... Showing a 404 error.

[KevinT]

The grteasygofarecard.ca site is offline... Showing a 404 error.

Ugh, why not just easygo.ca?  (Unless that's already in use for a laxative...)

Edit to add: It's not, I checked.

[bgb_ca]

Looks like it was registered in 2008, but expired a few weeks ago

Domain Information
Domain: easygo.ca
Registrar: Namespro Solutions Inc.
Registration Date: 2008-03-05
Expiration Date: 2018-03-05
Updated Date: 2018-03-06
Status: redemption
Name Servers:
ns1.bodis.com
ns2.bodis.com

[trainspotter139]

The grteasygofarecard.ca site is offline... Showing a 404 error.

Ugh, why not just easygo.ca?  (Unless that's already in use for a laxative...)

Edit to add:  It's not, I checked.

farecard.grt.ca would be much better tbh. the site also needed a facelift to match GRT's new website design standards

[KevinT]

Looks like it was registered in 2008, but expired a few weeks ago

Domain Information
Domain: easygo.ca
Registrar: Namespro Solutions Inc.
Registration Date: 2008-03-05
Expiration Date: 2018-03-05
Updated Date: 2018-03-06
Status: redemption
Name Servers:
ns1.bodis.com
ns2.bodis.com

Thanks, I tried to claim it to put a redirect on it (I'd turn it over to GRT gratis if they asked) but my guy tells me that redemption status means that the previous owner still has some time to reclaim it before anyone else can.  I've got a watch on it now, maybe I can still get it if GRT (or a laxative company) doesn't already have a watch of their on it.

[ijmorlan]

Ugh, why not just easygo.ca?  (Unless that's already in use for a laxative...)

Edit to add:  It's not, I checked.

farecard.grt.ca would be much better tbh. the site also needed a facelift to match GRT's new website design standards

Yes, I don’t know why people think every little thing their organization does needs a separate top-level domain. It really makes much more sense for an organization to pick a single canonical top-level domain and decree that all projects of the organization get a sub-domain (or even just a directory e.g. https://grt.ca/easygo).

[yige_t]

ION Bus launch is next Monday, May 19 from 9-11am at Ainslie Terminal. Goodies will be available (first come first served).

I won't make it but expect all nine to be gradually put into service on Cambridge routes very soon.