Grand River Transit

[ijmorlan]

The bid for the new GRT facility on Northfield closed this week. Bids were between $104M and $120M. I don't know what the budget was. It was a long process as the bid period started in October and there were 16 addenda making clarifications and changes.

https://regionofwaterloo.bidsandtenders....#Submitted

You can download the plans from the same page.

Too bad we wasted all that money on an LRT. Buses are cheap to own, operate, and maintain!

Note: I am actually in favour of more buses and bus maintenance facilities. But it’s interesting that the amount for a single new bus facility is a significant fraction of the cost of the supposedly ruinously expensive LRT system.

[westwardloo]

Haha does that include the purchase of new buses or is this just for the base building? Also does anyone know if grt is looking at purchasing a fleet of electric vehicles? I read that guelph (city/province/federal) is investing something like 200+million on electric buses and a new bus facility.

[taylortbb]

Haha does that include the purchase of new buses or is this just for the base building? Also does anyone know if grt is looking at purchasing a fleet of electric vehicles? I read that guelph (city/province/federal) is investing something like 200+million on electric buses and a new bus facility.

That's just the building and maintenance facilities, no buses.

I believe GRT's conclusion was that enough Canadian cities are running EV pilots right now they really wouldn't learn anything additional by doing it themselves. They'll wait a few years while other cities work through the kinks and bring the price down, then adopt them.

[danbrotherston]

Haha does that include the purchase of new buses or is this just for the base building? Also does anyone know if grt is looking at purchasing a fleet of electric vehicles? I read that guelph (city/province/federal) is investing something like 200+million on electric buses and a new bus facility.

That's just the building and maintenance facilities, no buses.

I believe GRT's conclusion was that enough Canadian cities are running EV pilots right now they really wouldn't learn anything additional by doing it themselves. They'll wait a few years while other cities work through the kinks and bring the price down, then adopt them.

Lol...that's a good one. Our regional engineers have felt the need to pilot everything for years and years--even when those things are actually in the HTA. I have zero doubt they will be piloting them, but much much later.

It is pretty disappointing that our region is not making plans to transition to electric buses. Guelph just announced a huge investment into EV busses. Still, given the LRT, we're not doing too bad.

What I am surprised about is the cost of these buildings. I don't know much about construction or costs, but I would have expected this type of industrial building to be much cheaper than a residential or commercial building, it's barely more than a warehouse.

[trainspotter139]

That's just the building and maintenance facilities, no buses.

I believe GRT's conclusion was that enough Canadian cities are running EV pilots right now they really wouldn't learn anything additional by doing it themselves. They'll wait a few years while other cities work through the kinks and bring the price down, then adopt them.

Lol...that's a good one. Our regional engineers have felt the need to pilot everything for years and years--even when those things are actually in the HTA. I have zero doubt they will be piloting them, but much much later.

It is pretty disappointing that our region is not making plans to transition to electric buses. Guelph just announced a huge investment into EV busses. Still, given the LRT, we're not doing too bad.

What I am surprised about is the cost of these buildings. I don't know much about construction or costs, but I would have expected this type of industrial building to be much cheaper than a residential or commercial building, it's barely more than a warehouse.

The building's core structure is relatively cheap; everything else, including the installation of the maintenance equipment, isn't.

[Bob_McBob]

GRT Unifor members have rejected the tentative collective agreement and will be on strike as of Tuesday unless another last minute agreement can be reached.

https://www.unifor.org/en/whats-new/pres...strike-grt

[Bytor]

The bid for the new GRT facility on Northfield closed this week. Bids were between $104M and $120M. I don't know what the budget was. It was a long process as the bid period started in October and there were 16 addenda making clarifications and changes.

https://regionofwaterloo.bidsandtenders....#Submitted

You can download the plans from the same page.

Too bad we wasted all that money on an LRT. Buses are cheap to own, operate, and maintain!

Note: I am actually in favour of more buses and bus maintenance facilities. But it’s interesting that the amount for a single new bus facility is a significant fraction of the cost of the supposedly ruinously expensive LRT system.

Can't tell if you're being serious or not, but, no, busses are not cheap to won, operate and maintain.

More drivers, more mechanics, diesel fuel more expensive than electricity, those are among the things that make a bus route more expensive to operate than an LRT for the same number of passengers.

[ijmorlan]

Too bad we wasted all that money on an LRT. Buses are cheap to own, operate, and maintain!

Note: I am actually in favour of more buses and bus maintenance facilities. But it’s interesting that the amount for a single new bus facility is a significant fraction of the cost of the supposedly ruinously expensive LRT system.

Can't tell if you're being serious or not, but, no, busses are not cheap to won, operate and maintain.

More drivers, more mechanics, diesel fuel more expensive than electricity, those are among the things that make a bus route more expensive to operate than an LRT for the same number of passengers.

I left out the “</sarc>”. All too many people seriously believe we should have just expanded bus service, because they are supposedly cheaper than LRT. At least that’s what they say; but I’m not convinced that people expressing that opinion are all sincere. I think in many cases they’re really just opposed to transit expansion, and the easiest way to avoid LRT construction is to pretend to be in favour of “sensible” “inexpensive” buses.

[MidTowner]

The 200 had sufficient ridership to justify an investment in higher-order transit. But buses are cheaper to purchase, and a capital investment of x spent on buses means greater coverage than the same capital outlay on rail transit.

Buses are more expensive to operate on a per rider basis, but they are cheap to buy.

[danbrotherston]

Can't tell if you're being serious or not, but, no, busses are not cheap to won, operate and maintain.

More drivers, more mechanics, diesel fuel more expensive than electricity, those are among the things that make a bus route more expensive to operate than an LRT for the same number of passengers.

I left out the “</sarc>”. All too many people seriously believe we should have just expanded bus service, because they are supposedly cheaper than LRT. At least that’s what they say; but I’m not convinced that people expressing that opinion are all sincere. I think in many cases they’re really just opposed to transit expansion, and the easiest way to avoid LRT construction is to pretend to be in favour of “sensible” “inexpensive” buses.

Virtually all cases. Ironically, many of these people are probably opposed to taking lanes for transit and don’t know that BRT includes dedicated lanes ....or at least should.

[Rainrider22]

The bid for the new GRT facility on Northfield closed this week. Bids were between $104M and $120M. I don't know what the budget was. It was a long process as the bid period started in October and there were 16 addenda making clarifications and changes.

https://regionofwaterloo.bidsandtenders....#Submitted

You can download the plans from the same page.

Too bad we wasted all that money on an LRT. Buses are cheap to own, operate, and maintain!

Note: I am actually in favour of more buses and bus maintenance facilities. But it’s interesting that the amount for a single new bus facility is a significant fraction of the cost of the supposedly ruinously expensive LRT system.

I am still amazed that this project is being built at the North end of Waterloo.  You would think the facility would be more centralized like around Maplegrove Road as an example.  I would love to see what a cost study would say about the extra labour and fuel lost on a bus serving Kitchener or Cambridge having to leave from North Waterloo.  Not to mention the extra distance employees have to drive to get to work there...

[taylortbb]

Too bad we wasted all that money on an LRT. Buses are cheap to own, operate, and maintain!

Note: I am actually in favour of more buses and bus maintenance facilities. But it’s interesting that the amount for a single new bus facility is a significant fraction of the cost of the supposedly ruinously expensive LRT system.

I am still amazed that this project is being built at the North end of Waterloo.  You would think the facility would be more centralized like around Maplegrove Road as an example.  I would love to see what a cost study would say about the extra labour and fuel lost on a bus serving Kitchener or Cambridge having to leave from North Waterloo.  Not to mention the extra distance employees have to drive to get to work there...

There's already two GRT garages. One in Cambridge near Cambridge Centre mall, and one in Kitchener near the Laurentian power centre. They're not being replaced by this project, this is a 3rd bus garage to supplement them. Given the current areas north Waterloo is the logical spot to spread them out over the region, for exactly the reasons you mention.

[tomh009]

The 200 had sufficient ridership to justify an investment in higher-order transit. But buses are cheaper to purchase, and a capital investment of x spent on buses means greater coverage than the same capital outlay on rail transit.

Yes. But it would not have spurred anywhere near the same level of development as what we are seeing next to the LRT line. And that, ladies and gentlemen, is why we got an LRT instead of a BRT.

[Momo26]

Does this thread cover the on-going GRT bus strike or is that being discussed more actively elsewhere? Anyone who relied on bus on here - how are you coping?

[JoeKW]

A few employees have been working from home this week and for next week we're making arrangements to help them get to work (Carpooling/paying for uber/whatever else is needed)