30-40 Margaret Ave | 6 fl | Planned

[tomh009]

Well this project is back from the dead as a Site Plan Application (SPA) was submitted to the city on November 3rd. I don't know if the ownership is still Activa, they still owned it in 2023 so it would not surprise me (You'd be amazed at how much of KW and the surrounding area they own).

With the new SPA it appears we may be going back towards the original proposal and away from the townhomes as the new SPA states: The overall proposal is for a six (6) storey multiple residential development with 261 residential apartment units including 1-bed 2-bed and 3-bed layouts developed in two (2) phases. A park is also proposed on the eastern portion of the site that will be conveyed to the City of Kitchener. If this is still Activa it would not surprise me if this ends up becoming a rental building as Activa has been dabbling in that realm recently, including building multiple buildings on spec without selling anything.

I can't see anybody putting up that many (high end?) condos in the current market.  If it were to happen, it will either be rental or will be very slowly staged.

I think so, too, rental is most likely. And I do expect that they will be premium priced, given the location.

Activa can always sell them off as condos at a later time once the market conditions change, should they so choose.

[ac3r]

Omfg are you telling me this never actually got built after being approved in 2023? Lmfao this region is hilarious.

[tomh009]

Well this project is back from the dead as a Site Plan Application (SPA) was submitted to the city on November 3rd. I don't know if the ownership is still Activa, they still owned it in 2023 so it would not surprise me (You'd be amazed at how much of KW and the surrounding area they own).

There appears to be some excavation (or at least digging) going on, but there is no building permit showing online.

[ZEBuilder]

Turns out this property did indeed sell. It is now owned by another local developer in VanMar. It's currently called "The Wrenford", architect is McCallumSather.

The building is proposed to have 261 residential units and 263 parking spaces (surface and underground). 21 3 Bdrm units, 102 2 Bdrm or 2 Bdrm+den, the balance is 1 Bdrm or 1 Bdrm+den.

[Square]

Turns out this property did indeed sell. It is now owned by another local developer in VanMar. It's currently called "The Wrenford", architect is McCallumSather.

The building is proposed to have 261 residential units and 263 parking spaces (surface and underground). 21 3 Bdrm units, 102 2 Bdrm or 2 Bdrm+den, the balance is 1 Bdrm or 1 Bdrm+den.

So Vanmar is going into the rental development? Still going to be 8 floors?

[ZEBuilder]

Turns out this property did indeed sell. It is now owned by another local developer in VanMar. It's currently called "The Wrenford", architect is McCallumSather.

The building is proposed to have 261 residential units and 263 parking spaces (surface and underground). 21 3 Bdrm units, 102 2 Bdrm or 2 Bdrm+den, the balance is 1 Bdrm or 1 Bdrm+den.

So Vanmar is going into the rental development? Still going to be 8 floors?

I don't know if Vanmar would go into the rental game, it's certainly possible but I can not provide a conclusive answer.

The building will be 6 floors.

All the public information on the project is buried in the HIA found here: 20251015_30_Margaret_MHBC_HIA_FINAL.pdf

[westwardloo]

So Vanmar is going into the rental development? Still going to be 8 floors?

I don't know if Vanmar would go into the rental game, it's certainly possible but I can not provide a conclusive answer.

The building will be 6 floors.

All the public information on the project is buried in the HIA found here: 20251015_30_Margaret_MHBC_HIA_FINAL.pdf

Wow what an incredible downgrade from what we were going to get pre-covid. This is hideous. It looks like a worse version of the old folks homes that are scattered around the region. 

https://www.google.com/maps/@43.4605542,...N0gBUAM%3D

Not sure why developers determine that rental properties need to look like ass in our region. There are a few examples that I wish developers would take inspiration from, Zehr was able to produce a beautiful long mid-rise with Stride on Union or what YNCU was able to produce for Uptown 168. 

[tomh009]

Wow what an incredible downgrade from what we were going to get pre-covid. This is hideous. It looks like a worse version of the old folks homes that are scattered around the region. 

It's a similar style ... but, yes, I would call it a downgrade.

Original design:


New design:
   

[tomh009]

To me, this is the biggest downgrade: instead of a green back yard (with a bocce court!) they are putting in a sea of surface parking, as many spaces as they can possibly squeeze in.

   

[westwardloo]

Wow what an incredible downgrade from what we were going to get pre-covid. This is hideous. It looks like a worse version of the old folks homes that are scattered around the region. 

It's a similar style ... but, yes, I would call it a downgrade.

Original design:


New design:

It is similar, but worse in every aspect. This thing was value engineered to oblivion. Instead of brick they are using stucco, instead of "limestone" they are using that ugly stone that makes its way onto way to many buildings for how ugly it is. They are including an Mansard roof, but only at the front facade. Mansard roofs are incredible hard to make look good. The original design had incorporated it nicely, but with the new design it would look better without this detail.  The Balconies locations are slightly different, which makes the building look odd. There is no longer an suttle inset detailing around the windows or a concrete ledger below the windows, which was a nice detail to breakup the wall of brick. Instead its just 4 straight floors of flat beige stucco. 

At the end of the day, they could have copied the old design, switched out the limestone for concrete block like Bara on Queen, used a prefab concrete panel stamped with brick, painted red and completely removed the top floor mansard roof and it would have looked great. Instead we are getting another hideous rental property to go with the rest. I am so done with the architects and developers that work in this region. There is no pride in what they produce.

[creative]

Out of curiosity, what would have your suggestions added to the overall cost to build as a percentage. Also what would have underground parking added to the overall cost of building as a percentage? No poorly designed shoebox/dogcrate condos being built anytime soon so I’m sure we are going to get more of this. I’m sure the architects are doing what they are told. Design to build as cheaply as possible.

[plam]

Out of curiosity, what would have your suggestions added to the overall cost to build as a percentage. Also what would have underground parking added to the overall cost of building as a percentage? No poorly designed shoebox/dogcrate condos being built anytime soon so I’m sure we are going to get more of this. I’m sure the architects are doing what they are told. Design to build as cheaply as possible.

I just read a number of 100k per parking spot for underground parking.

[tomh009]

Out of curiosity, what would have your suggestions added to the overall cost to build as a percentage. Also what would have underground parking added to the overall cost of building as a percentage? No poorly designed shoebox/dogcrate condos being built anytime soon so I’m sure we are going to get more of this. I’m sure the architects are doing what they are told. Design to build as cheaply as possible.

I just read a number of 100k per parking spot for underground parking.

I think $100K is the high end of the range in Toronto. For a second underground parking level (this building is already to have one level), in Kitchener, with this big a footprint (much more cost-effective than a small tower footprint), I would expect to be something  closer to the $50-60K range. But it might still be $40-50K beyond the cost of an outdoor parking space.

[Acitta]

Redevelopment plan for prominent Kitchener site gets mixed reviews
Plans to redevelop a prominent property in a Kitchener heritage district was met with mixed reviews from Heritage Kitchener members this week.

VanMar Developments — which acquired the long-vacant site at 30 Margaret Ave. last spring — wants to build a six-storey building with 261 rental apartments on the property, between Queen and Victoria streets.

[tomh009]

"It's a massive tower" (paraphrasing).

Sigh. It's a six-storey building. There is a four-storey one across the street, a new six-storey one 100m away (at Margaret/Victoria) and a pair of 18-storey towers at Margaret/Queen.