Grand River Transit

[danbrotherston]

Yeah, the seniors thing pisses me off too.

But as far as things which piss me off, it's not that high on the list.

When it comes to it, we're (trying to) rent a car this trip to Canada. Transit is just too bad and too expensive for it to be feasible to use.

Of course, renting a car is also proving difficult because they do not want my money...seems you cannot rent a car without a credit card...it literally doesn't matter how much money I have...the ONLY thing they want is my debt.

I consider transit to be pretty good in Waterloo. But it's not even close to being competitive with driving when it comes to speed, for nearly any trip. When time-constrained like on vacation, it just doesn't make sense.

I should clarify, in this case I specifically mean inter-city transit. Yeah Waterloo's transit isn't terrible by North American standards...but if I want to go to London I have an absolute shitshow of a time. There are four different bus options, three of which are beyond terrible, none of which integrate with anything else, or a single train that is only slightly faster than biking. This is what "competition" in a natural monopoly brings...abundance of mediocrity.

If it was just within KW...I'd probably take transit...I even have easy passes (and for London too)...but again, my social network is moderately like minded, so most people and places I'd like to visit live within easy reach of transit, so that makes it easier. It is actually visiting family which is more complicated.

[ijmorlan]

Seniors are more likely to use transit at off-peak times, so that would be one reason to extend this kind of thing to them and not others, making better use of the capacity.

No, it’s a reason to discount transit in off-peak times. Instead of targetting people based on sometimes-not-even-true-on-average stereotypes, target the actual thing that matters, in this case encouraging people to use the system when it’s not busy so that we can get closer to full use of the system.

[SammyOES]

No, it’s a reason to discount transit in off-peak times. Instead of targetting people based on sometimes-not-even-true-on-average stereotypes, target the actual thing that matters, in this case encouraging people to use the system when it’s not busy so that we can get closer to full use of the system.

Targeting time of day makes a ton of sense.

[ac3r]

I love when public services are run like a business.

And fail!

[Acitta]

Does anyone else have a problem with this:

“Region to launch pilot offering free transit for seniors”

https://kitchener.citynews.ca/2025/12/18...r-seniors/

Why is this targeting seniors?  I feel a lot of our younger and poor residents are in much bigger need of this type of support.  Medical appointments and grocery shopping are important, but that applies to a lot of other people including parents.  And add to that there’s a lot of people that rely on public transit to get to their minimum wage jobs who can use the help.

And then:

Acting Commissioner of Transportation Doug Spooner warned of revenue loss with the program, estimating the region could lose as much as $250,000 based on the number of seniors who already take transit.

A handful of councillors, including Kitchener Mayor Berry Vrbanovic, stressed the program in other municipalities has led to people taking the bus more frequently.

“The pilot actually led to people using transit on the non-free days as well because they got used to it, and that ultimately could lead to increased revenues going forward.”

I’m super skeptical it’s going to increase revenues, but even if it did… wouldn’t that apply to all of your demographics other than seniors too?  Like if this is the expected result… do it for everyone and make more money!

I’d much rather a real pilot for everyone or else something income tested.  I guess age is a lot easier to verify but still feels like we could get something that works.

As a low income senior, I am in favour of this.

[MidTowner]

Seniors are more likely to use transit at off-peak times, so that would be one reason to extend this kind of thing to them and not others, making better use of the capacity.

No, it’s a reason to discount transit in off-peak times. Instead of targetting people based on sometimes-not-even-true-on-average stereotypes, target the actual thing that matters, in this case encouraging people to use the system when it’s not busy so that we can get closer to full use of the system.

It's a reason for either, or both. The kind of thinking in your response risks making the perfect the enemy of the good. I don't disagree that making transit more accessible for all demographics is what we should want to do. If that's not achievable right now, but making transit more accessible for seniors is, I think that's a good thing.

[bravado]

I think that if we want nice, reliable public services, they have to be financially sustainable. You should have to pay ~something~ to use a nice and reliable service, or else it won't be that way for very long.

There might be some value in means-testing these sorts of programs, but we really need to get used to the idea of "nice things cost money". Without any means-testing, it's pretty clear: seniors are the wealthiest cohort in Canada (by quite a lot) and getting wealthier faster than all the others. This is a strange proposal to subsidize the wealthy under the guise of accessibility.

As for time of use... even an empty bus needs to be paid for by somebody.

[danbrotherston]

I think that if we want nice, reliable public services, they have to be financially sustainable. You should have to pay ~something~ to use a nice and reliable service, or else it won't be that way for very long.

There might be some value in means-testing these sorts of programs, but we really need to get used to the idea of "nice things cost money". Without any means-testing, it's pretty clear: seniors are the wealthiest cohort in Canada (by quite a lot) and getting wealthier faster than all the others. This is a strange proposal to subsidize the wealthy under the guise of accessibility.

As for time of use... even an empty bus needs to be paid for by somebody.

I disagree with this belief. KW has free libraries that are excellent. Parking and roads are also free and vary but at least in the Netherlands are excellent. 

I think pricing can be used as a useful signal (ie parking shouldn’t be free Because it’s harmful, rush hour transit in Toronto shouldn’t be free because demand outstrips supply) but isn’t a necessary component of delivering a valuable excellent service. We can pay for these things with taxation instead of fees.

And pricing something isn’t free, the very act of acting pricing ads friction and effort above and beyond the actual sticker price so as a society we should only use it where it makes sense.

[SammyOES]

As for time of use... even an empty bus needs to be paid for by somebody.

Sure, but the extra cost per passenger is extremely low compared to the cost of just running the bus. Which makes it a good opportunity for promotions that raise awareness of the bus system, builds comfort with the bus system, and encourages more rides in general.

Really the only cost is that you’ll eat into your ridership where people can shift their usage from paid times to cheaper times. But that’s ok in lots of situations.

Anyway; I’d love it much more than targeting a demographic that I really don’t believe needs it. And the low-income seniors that do need help with affording the bus should be able to move a lot of their trips to the cheap time.

[MidTowner]

New Year's Eve is next week.

London Transit Commission, Guelph Transit, Hamilton Street Railway, Go Transit, TTC, OC Transpo, Niagara Transit, all have free transit after a certain time.

GRT, however, does not.

[timc]

We used to. I still don't know why it was eliminated.

[tomh009]

I don't know that I would characterize this site as toxic, and usually things stay within the guardrails (Waterloo Region!). Unfortunately Kodra24 threw in a Zelensky corruption accusation into a GRT thread and things went off the rails from there. I will move the off-topic comments to a more appropriate thread.

[Bob_McBob]

New Year's Eve is next week.

London Transit Commission, Guelph Transit, Hamilton Street Railway, Go Transit, TTC, OC Transpo, Niagara Transit, all have free transit after a certain time.

GRT, however, does not.

I heard multiple drivers calling in to ask if they were supposed to be doing free rides for NYE on the scanner. And ION security calling in name checks for fare evaders as late as 11:40pm. Surely they have something better to do tonight. It's embarrassing.

[MidTowner]

New Year's Eve is next week.

London Transit Commission, Guelph Transit, Hamilton Street Railway, Go Transit, TTC, OC Transpo, Niagara Transit, all have free transit after a certain time.

GRT, however, does not.

I heard multiple drivers calling in to ask if they were supposed to be doing free rides for NYE on the scanner. And ION security calling in name checks for fare evaders as late as 11:40pm. Surely they have something better to do tonight. It's embarrassing.

That is nuts. Free transit on New Year's Eve is practically a tradition in North America by now. Driving under the influence is still very much an issue, and giving people more easy options to get home safely is a good thing.

As with other initiatives to increase access, it's also good sales and marketing.

I was thinking on New Year's Eve, additionally, the weather was bad. I know there is little chance of this happening here in Waterloo Region, but there is nothing stopping GRT from offering fare-free rides during inclement weather. If they are planning on running the Ion, but the police services are telling people to avoid traveling by car if possible, I think it would make sense to let people board without a fare.

[ijmorlan]

I heard multiple drivers calling in to ask if they were supposed to be doing free rides for NYE on the scanner. And ION security calling in name checks for fare evaders as late as 11:40pm. Surely they have something better to do tonight. It's embarrassing.

That is nuts. Free transit on New Year's Eve is practically a tradition in North America by now. Driving under the influence is still very much an issue, and giving people more easy options to get home safely is a good thing.

As with other initiatives to increase access, it's also good sales and marketing.

I was thinking on New Year's Eve, additionally, the weather was bad. I know there is little chance of this happening here in Waterloo Region, but there is nothing stopping GRT from offering fare-free rides during inclement weather. If they are planning on running the Ion, but the police services are telling people to avoid traveling by car if possible, I think it would make sense to let people board without a fare.

Free fares during inclement weather is actually a bad idea. You take a rush hour when transit is already busy, and dump a bunch more people on that don’t normally take it, while collecting no additional fares. So the version of transit that the new people see is the worst version of it, and you can’t really take the sudden surge anyway. Additionally, loyal customers who are already using a monthly pass get no benefit whatsoever, and in fact get worse service due to the extra people.

Free fares on New Year’s, by contrast, is a great idea. It’s not rush hour, so you’re not further overburdening the system. And since it’s planned, you can run sufficient service to meet the need.