Grand River Transit

[danbrotherston]

Yeah, COVID has done some serious harm to transit all over, but it seems especially acute in the region where we were in the middle of a significant expansion.

If only our regional government has sufficient sense (and ultimately, flexibility) to pivot to prioritizing cycling, sadly, it's painfully clear they do not.

[jwilliamson]

The UW transit hub seems to be fully open. I saw many GRT and GO buses there today.

[ac3r]

Are those areas with glass enclosed? GRT has this bad habit of designing things with minimal shelter from the elements and it's really annoying when it's winter, pouring rain or just extremely windy out.

[KevinL]

It's had GRT buses since January and GO since March. I believe the glass shelters are fully enclosed.

[ac3r]

Fares are going up for transit on July 1st. Happy Canada Is Fucked Day! https://www.grt.ca/en/fares-passes/fares.aspx

Meanwhile in a good country like Germany, they just introduced nation wide monthly passes for 9 euros...in order to offset rising fuel prices. Genius idea to make transportation even less viable, Waterloo Region.

[bravado]

Fares are going up for transit on July 1st. Happy Canada Is Fucked Day! https://www.grt.ca/en/fares-passes/fares.aspx

Meanwhile in a good country like Germany, they just introduced nation wide monthly passes for 9 euros...in order to offset rising fuel prices. Genius idea to make transportation even less viable, Waterloo Region.

“If you want to get around your city, just be less poor!”

- Your friendly neighbourhood Regional councillor

[plam]

I don't think prices for transit should go up, but I also think it's difficult for Regional Council to not do so, because Ontario citizens are too concerned with not paying tax rather than having public services. It would really require provincial funding to hold the line on transit prices. The Region can't run operating deficits and gas prices are up. Indeed, the increases look to be less than inflation.

NZ is having temporary 50% off transit and cutting the gas tax right now, centrally funded.

[dtkvictim]

I don't think prices for transit should go up, but I also think it's difficult for Regional Council to not do so, because Ontario citizens are too concerned with not paying tax rather than having public services. It would really require provincial funding to hold the line on transit prices. The Region can't run operating deficits and gas prices are up. Indeed, the increases look to be less than inflation.

NZ is having temporary 50% off transit and cutting the gas tax right now, centrally funded.

Indeed, if the price increase is less than inflation (especially considering how much fuel is a factor), then the subsidy to transit is actually increasing, all else equal.

You can argue about whether or not the current subsidy and level of service is correct, but I don't want to end up in a Toronto situation where politicians pride themselves in keeping tax increases below inflation, ending up with lowest tax rate in the province, and it begins to show.

[ijmorlan]

Fares are going up for transit on July 1st. Happy Canada Is Fucked Day! https://www.grt.ca/en/fares-passes/fares.aspx

Meanwhile in a good country like Germany, they just introduced nation wide monthly passes for 9 euros...in order to offset rising fuel prices. Genius idea to make transportation even less viable, Waterloo Region.

Around here everybody wants to reduce the (not very high) gas taxes. Total economic ignorance.

I’ve even seen people arguing that the government’s take is going up due to the high gas prices, which of course is totally wrong since the gas tax is defined in ¢/L, not as a percentage of the price paid.

[ac3r]

It would really require provincial funding to hold the line on transit prices.=

Well the Liberals had a "buck a ride" transit fares if they won, but then this province said nah we want to get screwed by Ford for 4 more years. Not that I think the OLP would have been a good party...or that they could even pull this off (like many things they promise) but yeah, we at least had a chance.

[ijmorlan]

It would really require provincial funding to hold the line on transit prices.=

Well the Liberals had a "buck a ride" transit fares if they won, but then this province said nah we want to get screwed by Ford for 4 more years. Not that I think the OLP would have been a good party...or that they could even pull this off (like many things they promise) but yeah, we at least had a chance.

I think part of the problem was the Liberals had poorly considered ideas. “Buck a ride” is dumb unless it’s clear what happens to the overall funding level. I don’t trust the populace at large to evaluate policy decisions well, but on some level I think many people can, at least some of the time, detect when a policy is just a brainstorm idea from an election campaign rather than a well considered idea that actually has some solid thinking behind it. I mean, I like the idea of lowering fares, but only in the context of increasing funding so the service can handle the additional ridership and to increase the number of people for whom the newly-reduced fares are useful.

[danbrotherston]

I don't think prices for transit should go up, but I also think it's difficult for Regional Council to not do so, because Ontario citizens are too concerned with not paying tax rather than having public services. It would really require provincial funding to hold the line on transit prices. The Region can't run operating deficits and gas prices are up. Indeed, the increases look to be less than inflation.

NZ is having temporary 50% off transit and cutting the gas tax right now, centrally funded.

Actually now would be an easier time than other times. They are going to have to hike taxes significantly for inflation, yes, people are going to be angry, but because they have the cover of inflation (not to mention a large increase already) it would be easier to increase the transit subsidy without people being as upset about that.

But the fact they are hiking rates and not increasing service as was previously planned...*sigh*...

[danbrotherston]

Well the Liberals had a "buck a ride" transit fares if they won, but then this province said nah we want to get screwed by Ford for 4 more years. Not that I think the OLP would have been a good party...or that they could even pull this off (like many things they promise) but yeah, we at least had a chance.

I think part of the problem was the Liberals had poorly considered ideas. “Buck a ride” is dumb unless it’s clear what happens to the overall funding level. I don’t trust the populace at large to evaluate policy decisions well, but on some level I think many people can, at least some of the time, detect when a policy is just a brainstorm idea from an election campaign rather than a well considered idea that actually has some solid thinking behind it. I mean, I like the idea of lowering fares, but only in the context of increasing funding so the service can handle the additional ridership and to increase the number of people for whom the newly-reduced fares are useful.

Dumb ideas doesn't seem to hurt conservatives.

[WLU]

Fares are going up for transit on July 1st. Happy Canada Is Fucked Day! https://www.grt.ca/en/fares-passes/fares.aspx

Meanwhile in a good country like Germany, they just introduced nation wide monthly passes for 9 euros...in order to offset rising fuel prices. Genius idea to make transportation even less viable, Waterloo Region.

Around here everybody wants to reduce the (not very high) gas taxes. Total economic ignorance.

I’ve even seen people arguing that the government’s take is going up due to the high gas prices, which of course is totally wrong since the gas tax is defined in ¢/L, not as a percentage of the price paid.

The government collects more than fuel tax.  They collect HST on the final fuel purchase.  They are raking in substantially more HST right now because of high fuel prices.

[danbrotherston]

Around here everybody wants to reduce the (not very high) gas taxes. Total economic ignorance.

I’ve even seen people arguing that the government’s take is going up due to the high gas prices, which of course is totally wrong since the gas tax is defined in ¢/L, not as a percentage of the price paid.

The government collects more than fuel tax.  They collect HST on the final fuel purchase.  They are raking in substantially more HST right now because of high fuel prices.

This is likely false or nearly false.

It would only be true if the money people are spending on gas would have otherwise been spent in a way that doesn't result in HST being collected. I.e., if they're buying gas instead of food, or gas instead of investing their money.

If they're buying gas instead of other luxuries (the most likely case) then it's HST neutral.

People make this argument all the time but it's assuming things exist in isolation...they don't.