ION Phase 2 - Cambridge's Light Rail Transit

[danbrotherston]

To be fair, part of our cost here in North America is that we just don't have the local/regional/national expertise for building rail like places in Europe do. It doesn't account for why Stage 2 has that horrible $4.5B eval rather than $1.5B, but it would explain the difference between $1.5B and $1.1B.

Even aside from the P3 to build and operate ION, almost none of the stuff before that was done by Regional Staff, but by hiring external consultants instead, so we didn't build any local expertise to put that into development and procurement for Stage 2 to keep the costs down. 

Currently, only one Region staffer is working on Stage 2, and whatever external consultants they let him hire, so we're not doing any better this time and will have no clue on how to reasonably reduce costs without reducing functionality.

This is a great point. We have a major lack of knowledge when it comes to transit infrastructure and expansion in Canada/ North America. It definitely doesn't help that we have some of the most stringent rail regulations in the world and just hire external consultants for everything.  I know the staffer, they are a really good person and a hard worker, but one staff member to planning a 4 billion dollar extension is pretty sad.

It's too bad liability is such a massive issue now a days and the Region is adamant about never becoming a constructor for legal reasons.  In a dream world we would have a full time construction crew of transit experts constantly building 1-2 km of transit lines per year with a mandate for 1 station to come online each year. It would be a rock first couple years, but with in half a decade we would have

That's an extreme level, having regional employees build stuff, we don't even do that for roads. There are miles and miles of space between that and what we do now...

For example, the region could have engineers on the payroll who are capable of designing transit infra...then we could hire construction companies directly.

[plam]

One of the NZ substacks I read was talking about how nice it would be to bring back the Ministry of Works. Western governments just got rid of this ability in the 80s or earlier I guess.

[westwardloo]

There is a real possibility the current Cambridge council pushes for fully separated BRT. If the residents of Cambridge elect the same council next election (Mostly their joke of a Mayor), it is more than likely we are a Region with 2 different types of transit systems along the same spine.

[bravado]

There is a real possibility the current Cambridge council pushes for fully separated BRT. If the residents of Cambridge elect the same council next election (Mostly their joke of a Mayor), it is more than likely we are a Region with 2 different types of transit systems along the same spine.

And then they get to brag about how they are the council that actually cares about debt and spending while picking a worse product that doesn’t improve their own city

My sanity is truly fraying down here most days

[westwardloo]

There is a real possibility the current Cambridge council pushes for fully separated BRT. If the residents of Cambridge elect the same council next election (Mostly their joke of a Mayor), it is more than likely we are a Region with 2 different types of transit systems along the same spine.

And then they get to brag about how they are the council that actually cares about debt and spending while picking a worse product that doesn’t improve their own city

My sanity is truly fraying down here most days

Just be mentally prepared for it. The whole reason BRT is included in the business case is to appease the current Cambridge Council who seems to be as anti LRT as possible. The only reason this thing is moving along at all is because we have a Regional council who on the whole is generally pro-LRT. (Except the cambridge representatives) Phase 2 will more then likely be a major election issue.  

Nothing will be done on an east west leg until Cambridge gets theirs.

[bravado]

Why does Cambridge city council matter at all? It’s not their jurisdiction. Yet again why is governance so needlessly complex and inefficient here? Who is it benefiting?

[westwardloo]

Why does Cambridge city council matter at all? It’s not their jurisdiction. Yet again why is governance so needlessly complex and inefficient here? Who is it benefiting?

Because that is the mess that we have created by having multiple levels of municipal politics.  At the end of the day this is a Regional project, but it goes through Cambridge neighbourhoods and Cambridge streets. Like it or not Cambridge needs to back this project for it so move forward. I long for the day that we are 1 municipality, but unfortunately I seem to be in the minority. 

It doesn't help that at least 2 of the 3 cambridge representatives on Regional council are actively opposed to the LRT. Not sure where pam stands on the issue.

[ijmorlan]

Why does Cambridge city council matter at all? It’s not their jurisdiction. Yet again why is governance so needlessly complex and inefficient here? Who is it benefiting?

Because that is the mess that we have created by having multiple levels of municipal politics.  At the end of the day this is a Regional project, but it goes through Cambridge neighbourhoods and Cambridge streets. Like it or not Cambridge needs to back this project for it so move forward. I long for the day that we are 1 municipality, but unfortunately I seem to be in the minority. 

It doesn't help that at least 2 of the 3 cambridge representatives on Regional council are actively opposed to the LRT. Not sure where pam stands on the issue.

Also the LRT inevitably relates directly to matters which are City jurisdiction — zoning, and a lot of planning. You can’t really separate public transportation from other aspects of urban planning.

But indeed, it is unfortunate and disappointing that Cambridge council is acting like this. I hope the rest of the Region votes down any BRT alternative to LRT. BRT may be appropriate here and there (e.g., to reach an LRT stop!), but the idea that we should build a fully separate bus route down from Fairview instead of an LRT extension is nonsensical.

[danbrotherston]

Why does Cambridge city council matter at all? It’s not their jurisdiction. Yet again why is governance so needlessly complex and inefficient here? Who is it benefiting?

Because that is the mess that we have created by having multiple levels of municipal politics.  At the end of the day this is a Regional project, but it goes through Cambridge neighbourhoods and Cambridge streets. Like it or not Cambridge needs to back this project for it so move forward. I long for the day that we are 1 municipality, but unfortunately I seem to be in the minority. 

It doesn't help that at least 2 of the 3 cambridge representatives on Regional council are actively opposed to the LRT. Not sure where pam stands on the issue.

FWIW...it is only chance that municipal politics play out this way. For some issues, the region is on the wrong side and the cities are more progressive. This is the case for bike lanes, road safety, and other more local issues. In this case, moving towards a single government for the region is likely to harm progress on these things.

I don't think "the region is aligned with me on this one issue" is a good argument for a single level government. You have to believe that the region as a whole is a better scale to manage all our issues at...and fundamentally I think having the flexibility of having some issues managed at a more local scale is a better...but that's just my opinion.

As for ION Phase 2, I don't foresee it actually happening. The costs are bullshit. The politics are bullshit. But it is also a poison pill at this point...we can do it, but we also cannot do anything else.

[westwardloo]

Because that is the mess that we have created by having multiple levels of municipal politics.  At the end of the day this is a Regional project, but it goes through Cambridge neighbourhoods and Cambridge streets. Like it or not Cambridge needs to back this project for it so move forward. I long for the day that we are 1 municipality, but unfortunately I seem to be in the minority. 

It doesn't help that at least 2 of the 3 cambridge representatives on Regional council are actively opposed to the LRT. Not sure where pam stands on the issue.

FWIW...it is only chance that municipal politics play out this way. For some issues, the region is on the wrong side and the cities are more progressive. This is the case for bike lanes, road safety, and other more local issues. In this case, moving towards a single government for the region is likely to harm progress on these things.

I don't think "the region is aligned with me on this one issue" is a good argument for a single level government. You have to believe that the region as a whole is a better scale to manage all our issues at...and fundamentally I think having the flexibility of having some issues managed at a more local scale is a better...but that's just my opinion.

As for ION Phase 2, I don't foresee it actually happening. The costs are bullshit. The politics are bullshit. But it is also a poison pill at this point...we can do it, but we also cannot do anything else.

This one issue just adds to the multiple reasons I believe we should be 1 municipality. In terms of bike lanes. I think one of the biggest reasons the cities have been better at implementing them then the Region is the type of roads that owned and maintained by the region are very different then the roads the cities maintain. If there was one planning department maybe there would be some consistency with how bike lanes infrastructure is implemented in the Region.

[danbrotherston]

FWIW...it is only chance that municipal politics play out this way. For some issues, the region is on the wrong side and the cities are more progressive. This is the case for bike lanes, road safety, and other more local issues. In this case, moving towards a single government for the region is likely to harm progress on these things.

I don't think "the region is aligned with me on this one issue" is a good argument for a single level government. You have to believe that the region as a whole is a better scale to manage all our issues at...and fundamentally I think having the flexibility of having some issues managed at a more local scale is a better...but that's just my opinion.

As for ION Phase 2, I don't foresee it actually happening. The costs are bullshit. The politics are bullshit. But it is also a poison pill at this point...we can do it, but we also cannot do anything else.

This one issue just adds to the multiple reasons I believe we should be 1 municipality. In terms of bike lanes. I think one of the biggest reasons the cities have been better at implementing them then the Region is the type of roads that owned and maintained by the region are very different then the roads the cities maintain. If there was one planning department maybe there would be some consistency with how bike lanes infrastructure is implemented in the Region.

To me, the region and cities managing different types of roads is actually a reason to have two planning departments. In fact, if the region would get out of the business of accommodating driveways, it could actually be a very good thing.

But I really don't think consistency of infrastructure is the biggest obstacle to cycling in the region. I'd be happier if planners were less concerned with consistency and more concerned with just building something.

[tomh009]

To me, the region and cities managing different types of roads is actually a reason to have two planning departments. In fact, if the region would get out of the business of accommodating driveways, it could actually be a very good thing.

But I really don't think consistency of infrastructure is the biggest obstacle to cycling in the region. I'd be happier if planners were less concerned with consistency and more concerned with just building something.

However, it might be nice if Kitchener and Waterloo had interconnecting bike lane networks, for example.

[bravado]

I'd be happier if planners were less concerned with consistency and more concerned with just building something.

but we can’t “just do” anything because of the insane inaction that comes from needing to consult 10x other groups who might have an interest in a project.

The fact that nobody knows who plows their sidewalk or fixes potholes or programs the traffic signals or staffs the fire trucks without needing to read a dense, unintelligible bylaw is a sign of how inefficient all this shit is.

[KevinL]

The fact that nobody knows who plows their sidewalk or fixes potholes or programs the traffic signals or staffs the fire trucks without needing to read a dense, unintelligible bylaw is a sign of how inefficient all this shit is.

One good fix would be a single contact point for municipal services - a shared website and 311 call in line - that could handle any municipal inquiry and direct it to the correct level. Getting all the municipalities on board would be tricky, of course.

[nms]

Ye of little faith. 911 dispatch has figured out how to manage the WRPS (Regional), Paramedics (Regional), Fire (Cities), and Bylaw (Cities).