Cycling in Waterloo Region

[creative]

I rest my case!

[danbrotherston]

I rest my case!

What case?

You're arguing we're making factual statements...

We're not.

Is "we should design roads so that drivers can go faster" a factual statement or a value statement?

[cherrypark]

There's a good video that was just put out about Doug Ford's so called war on bike lanes which all mass media and every biking YouTuber has jumped on, but was barely about bike lanes and more a way to try and push more road/highway legislation through: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8-1vT0TmQjs

Nothing like a convenient wedge issue and distraction all wrapped in one nice ideological package.

[cherrypark]

I like how those that drive cars are supposed experts on building bike lanes while those that primarily cycle are supposed experts on how to build car lanes. Dunning Kruger effect

There certainly is some of that from both "sides", but it's really not equivalent. Most people who drive almost exclusively drive, but most people who bike also drive (and walk, and take transit).

Exactly. I drive and bike on the same streets regularly. Never am I sitting there thinking the bike lanes are the primary issue with any congestion or extra light cycle. (Hint: almost always construction for road repair or expansion)

[ac3r]

There's a good video that was just put out about Doug Ford's so called war on bike lanes which all mass media and every biking YouTuber has jumped on, but was barely about bike lanes and more a way to try and push more road/highway legislation through: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8-1vT0TmQjs

Nothing like a convenient wedge issue and distraction all wrapped in one nice ideological package.

He really likes using the US playbook when it comes to governance, but like...in a real dumb, inelegant way.

[dscurtis]

Clearly it's been a while since I've gone down Duke between Cedar and Frederick, I didn't know about this new MUT! Pavement markings are nearly complete, just missing the centreline at the Frederick end. The bike signal at Scott St is also still bagged. A little disappointed to not see continuous sidewalks/MUT, but otherwise it's quite nice.

Photos from yesterday:

[dscurtis]

Also, I noticed a patch of asphalt was added on this tight corner on the Transit Hub trail at Joseph St. It's a nice improvement over the previous 90 degree bend:

[dtkvictim]

Clearly it's been a while since I've gone down Duke between Cedar and Frederick, I didn't know about this new MUT! Pavement markings are nearly complete, just missing the centreline at the Frederick end. The bike signal at Scott St is also still bagged. A little disappointed to not see continuous sidewalks/MUT, but otherwise it's quite nice.

This one is only a cycle track, not a MUT (sidewalk is for pedestrians) and is nominally part of the downtown grid. Though in reality we'll have to wait and see if it actually ever connects to the rest...

Speaking of bicycle signals, I'm pretty the signal at Weber and Victoria is still bagged after what feels like more than 2 years. Other bicycle lights have been installed and turned on in that time so I wonder what the issue is.

[ZEBuilder]

Clearly it's been a while since I've gone down Duke between Cedar and Frederick, I didn't know about this new MUT! Pavement markings are nearly complete, just missing the centreline at the Frederick end. The bike signal at Scott St is also still bagged. A little disappointed to not see continuous sidewalks/MUT, but otherwise it's quite nice.

This one is only a cycle track, not a MUT (sidewalk is for pedestrians) and is nominally part of the downtown grid. Though in reality we'll have to wait and see if it actually ever connects to the rest...

Speaking of bicycle signals, I'm pretty the signal at Weber and Victoria is still bagged after what feels like more than 2 years. Other bicycle lights have been installed and turned on in that time so I wonder what the issue is.

I can't say for certain as to the reason but having worked with traffic signal cabinets and controllers they are very likely part of if not the entire issue. At every intersection there will be a traffic cabinet, generally a large grey box mounted on a pole or a stand alone pad, the Region has been wrapping them in blue with their logo recently. These cabinets control the entire signal operation for an intersection. Inside of the cabinet you have the signal controller, conflict monitor/MMU, load switches, detection equipment etc. All the brains of the intersection are running through the cabinet. The issue with cabinets is depending on the age you run into issues with the current complexity of intersections.

In the past before intersections got complicated you would typically have a TS1 cabinet and would be fine. A TS1 cabinet has the ability to run 8 separate phase thru and left turn (LT) movements on all four legs of an intersection (Northbound thru, Southbound thru, Westbound thru, Eastbound thru, and NBLT, SBLT, WBLT, EBLT). This works fine at your simple intersections and still does. Where you run into problems with a TS1 cabinet is you cannot have more movements than the 8 mentioned, so if you want a dedicated right turn (RT) movement that only triggers when there is a car in the RT lane you will need a ninth phase which a TS1 cabinet does not have the room for. If you want to have bike signals that trigger when there is a bike again you need another phase which isn't included in the TS1 cabinet.

Now most municipalities are implementing TS2 cabinets at intersections which have the capability to run 16 separate phases. You have your standard 8 phases that were mentioned but you can now add NB, SB, EB, WB bike signals (depending on the configuration this can be either 2 or 4 phases), you can then have dedicated RT phasing if you so desire, dedicated pedestrian phasing, so the flexibility increases with a TS2.

The Region has been installing TS2 cabinets in various locations as they've been implementing LPI (leading pedestrian interval) which requires a TS2 to run, this allows pedestrians to start crossing at intersections before traffic gets a green (generally 3 seconds, can be longer if volume justifies). So the Region has TS2 cabinets, so I would hope Weber and Victoria is TS2 but there's no way of telling without opening it, cabinets useful life is generally 20 years and with the Weber and Victoria cabinet being installed right after the grade separation (a decade ago) it definitely could be a TS1 cabinet which would inhibit the bike signal from operating.

Detection is another issue that could be prohibiting the signal from being turned on but it is generally way easier to fix so hopefully that is the issue. From experience replacing a cabinet is a gigantic pain since you have to take the intersection offline to rewire everything into the new cabinet, think cops directing traffic for a day. If the cabinet is the issue (hopefully it isn't) it would not surprise me if the Region is waiting to change the cabinet until they redo Victoria from King to Weber for the transit hub. Especially since they're going to require a phase upgrade anyway for TSP and bike along Victoria. However hopefully it's a detection issue though, those are miles cheaper and easier to deal with generally.

[KevinL]

Also, I noticed a patch of asphalt was added on this tight corner on the Transit Hub trail at Joseph St. It's a nice improvement over the previous 90 degree bend:

Very necessary, especially as that fill is loose gravel - much more dangerous to take a spill on than, say, grass or dirt.

[dtkvictim]

...

Good info. I don't know of many places in the Region that detect bicycles though, and I don't think that ever happens where the pedestrian signal is always activated. I expect in the case of Weber/Victoria that the bicycle signal will always be exactly the same as the pedestrian signal (minus the countdown, and the bicycle yellow activates at the same time as the vehicular yellow) and that the only reason they install them is the meet the legal requirement for a crossride.

This intersection does have a special sequence for emergency vehicles (which come through quite often) where it fairly quickly cycles between both directions for through-traffic 3-4 times while keeping the pedestrian signals red the entire time. I imagine that takes up extra phases on the signal boxes. My initial thought was just that they haven't figured out/decided how to program the bicycles signals to deal with this situation, but surely this happens at a crossride somewhere else in the region already.

[ZEBuilder]

...

Good info. I don't know of many places in the Region that detect bicycles though, and I don't think that ever happens where the pedestrian signal is always activated. I expect in the case of Weber/Victoria that the bicycle signal will always be exactly the same as the pedestrian signal (minus the countdown, and the bicycle yellow activates at the same time as the vehicular yellow) and that the only reason they install them is the meet the legal requirement for a crossride.

This intersection does have a special sequence for emergency vehicles (which come through quite often) where it fairly quickly cycles between both directions for through-traffic 3-4 times while keeping the pedestrian signals red the entire time. I imagine that takes up extra phases on the signal boxes. My initial thought was just that they haven't figured out/decided how to program the bicycles signals to deal with this situation, but surely this happens at a crossride somewhere else in the region already.

The miovision camera has detection ability for bikes, the Region has been using radar detection as well for bikes given that miovision can be temperamental, they have radar set up at Joseph and Victoria (look at the pole closest to Deloitte).

Given that particular emergency preemption case, which is a rather weird case of it. It would only require an extra 4 phases for pedestrians so there would still be more phases to put bike into the cabinet. There's certainly something more happening behind the scenes because it isn't hard to program bike to act the same as a pedestrian phase given this specific situation, the scripting in the controller is just going to change slightly.

[danbrotherston]

Good info. I don't know of many places in the Region that detect bicycles though, and I don't think that ever happens where the pedestrian signal is always activated. I expect in the case of Weber/Victoria that the bicycle signal will always be exactly the same as the pedestrian signal (minus the countdown, and the bicycle yellow activates at the same time as the vehicular yellow) and that the only reason they install them is the meet the legal requirement for a crossride.

This intersection does have a special sequence for emergency vehicles (which come through quite often) where it fairly quickly cycles between both directions for through-traffic 3-4 times while keeping the pedestrian signals red the entire time. I imagine that takes up extra phases on the signal boxes. My initial thought was just that they haven't figured out/decided how to program the bicycles signals to deal with this situation, but surely this happens at a crossride somewhere else in the region already.

The miovision camera has detection ability for bikes, the Region has been using radar detection as well for bikes given that miovision can be temperamental, they have radar set up at Joseph and Victoria (look at the pole closest to Deloitte).

Given that particular emergency preemption case, which is a rather weird case of it. It would only require an extra 4 phases for pedestrians so there would still be more phases to put bike into the cabinet. There's certainly something more happening behind the scenes because it isn't hard to program bike to act the same as a pedestrian phase given this specific situation, the scripting in the controller is just going to change slightly.

I have never been impressed by the Region's traffic signal staff. They presented to ATAC a while back and were basically useless. They didn't care to change anything at all about their practices, and find them to be absolutely fine as is, even something as trivial as copying Ottawa's (you know, a peer Ontario city) traffic signal programming was literally abhorrent to them. They expressed emphatically that their policies put pedestrians first, despite clearly not being so. I have little surprise that they would be lagging on enabling bicycle signals around the region.

And I'm not saying that every employee feels this way, only that the ones that were tasked with representing their department to the ATAC committee expressed this disdain for the idea that they should change anything about how they manage signals.

And yeah, over here in the Netherlands, the traffic signals are shockingly complex, and yet somehow they work remarkably well. So whose to say who is right. The user, or the engineer.

In any case, it's nice they've built the Duke St. cycle track, it's just a shame that the rest of the project has been effectively cancelled so it will never (at least not in my probable lifetime) be completed.

[ZEBuilder]

The miovision camera has detection ability for bikes, the Region has been using radar detection as well for bikes given that miovision can be temperamental, they have radar set up at Joseph and Victoria (look at the pole closest to Deloitte).

Given that particular emergency preemption case, which is a rather weird case of it. It would only require an extra 4 phases for pedestrians so there would still be more phases to put bike into the cabinet. There's certainly something more happening behind the scenes because it isn't hard to program bike to act the same as a pedestrian phase given this specific situation, the scripting in the controller is just going to change slightly.

I have never been impressed by the Region's traffic signal staff. They presented to ATAC a while back and were basically useless. They didn't care to change anything at all about their practices, and find them to be absolutely fine as is, even something as trivial as copying Ottawa's (you know, a peer Ontario city) traffic signal programming was literally abhorrent to them. They expressed emphatically that their policies put pedestrians first, despite clearly not being so. I have little surprise that they would be lagging on enabling bicycle signals around the region.

And I'm not saying that every employee feels this way, only that the ones that were tasked with representing their department to the ATAC committee expressed this disdain for the idea that they should change anything about how they manage signals.

And yeah, over here in the Netherlands, the traffic signals are shockingly complex, and yet somehow they work remarkably well. So whose to say who is right. The user, or the engineer.

In any case, it's nice they've built the Duke St. cycle track, it's just a shame that the rest of the project has been effectively cancelled so it will never (at least not in my probable lifetime) be completed.

It's really based on what the higher ups want to do in terms of capital allocation. Some municipalities have decided vision zero/active transit is important and implemented various features to make progress towards it, we're talking millions of dollars to bring things up to AODA standards and implement your LPI and LBI.

The other thing that is a pain having worked on the public side of traffic signals is the constant complaints from the public. If you change a phasing to better align with other road users (pedestrians/bikes) so the LOS for them is B/C it might make vehicles go to C/D/E. You will inevitably get complaints because of it and once you get a councillor riding an issue it's constant until you basically revert to the previous iteration. It obviously shouldn't work like this but it unfortunately does. There's various things the signals department may want to do but just fundamentally can't because of pressure from outside sources.

Often times the user gets to make the calls because of public pressure (generally car users). Many of us engineers/EITs/CETs want to do things but we just can't due to either budget or politics around it which is the unfortunate reality of a car dominated society.

[danbrotherston]

I have never been impressed by the Region's traffic signal staff. They presented to ATAC a while back and were basically useless. They didn't care to change anything at all about their practices, and find them to be absolutely fine as is, even something as trivial as copying Ottawa's (you know, a peer Ontario city) traffic signal programming was literally abhorrent to them. They expressed emphatically that their policies put pedestrians first, despite clearly not being so. I have little surprise that they would be lagging on enabling bicycle signals around the region.

And I'm not saying that every employee feels this way, only that the ones that were tasked with representing their department to the ATAC committee expressed this disdain for the idea that they should change anything about how they manage signals.

And yeah, over here in the Netherlands, the traffic signals are shockingly complex, and yet somehow they work remarkably well. So whose to say who is right. The user, or the engineer.

In any case, it's nice they've built the Duke St. cycle track, it's just a shame that the rest of the project has been effectively cancelled so it will never (at least not in my probable lifetime) be completed.

It's really based on what the higher ups want to do in terms of capital allocation. Some municipalities have decided vision zero/active transit is important and implemented various features to make progress towards it, we're talking millions of dollars to bring things up to AODA standards and implement your LPI and LBI.

The other thing that is a pain having worked on the public side of traffic signals is the constant complaints from the public. If you change a phasing to better align with other road users (pedestrians/bikes) so the LOS for them is B/C it might make vehicles go to C/D/E. You will inevitably get complaints because of it and once you get a councillor riding an issue it's constant until you basically revert to the previous iteration. It obviously shouldn't work like this but it unfortunately does. There's various things the signals department may want to do but just fundamentally can't because of pressure from outside sources.

Often times the user gets to make the calls because of public pressure (generally car users). Many of us engineers/EITs/CETs want to do things but we just can't due to either budget or politics around it which is the unfortunate reality of a car dominated society.

Yeah, and if the traffic signal engineer had stood in front of us and said that, I'd respect them, I'd still complain, but I'd be complaining to the politicians and telling them to change their priorities. But that wasn't what they were saying. They were standing there, with a straight face, and telling me that they were prioritizing pedestrians with their traffic signal system, and I know that they are not. Whether they are lying, or deluding themselves doesn't matter. The problem is that if politicians do tell them to change their priorities, nothing will change.

And I saw this very clear. You say what others have said that the budget is the governments priority statement. But I have realized that isn't entirely true. Tons of money is spent on cycling, and yet we still won't install bike lanes when they would delay drivers. Duke St. (or Weber, or King) won't get a complete cycle track, not for lack of funding, but for lack of willingness to prioritize cycling over other road traffic. The CoK fully funded this project, the money is there, the political will is not. Money is in fact a great way to pretend to have political will without actually spending much political capital.