Cycling in Waterloo Region

[ijmorlan]

What about removing lanes just to reduce the road width, with nothing new being constructed in its place? I know of 4 lane roads in Waterloo that absolutely do not whatsoever in any way need that many lanes and just as a matter of simple fiscal prudence (one might even say conservatism) they should be narrowed to save on maintenance.

Of course, if a road were once narrowed, a proposal could eventually arise to widen it to include bike lanes …

[dtkvictim]

The wiggling room is in the language: it doesn't actually block creating bike lanes or MUTs, it only blocks the removal of motor vehicle traffic lanes.

When this whole ordeal started I recall there was a process included to get the province's approval to remove lanes. I'm not sure if that was a different bill or, if it was this bill, if that portion of it survived. It may have been meaningless regardless.

nor would the conversion of a parking lane into a bike lane, MUT or wider sidewalk.

I think it generally would, as "parking lanes" are usually motor vehicle lanes, albeit useless ones for driving in.

Despite the other restrictions included, I do wonder if this is only meant to target cycling. Wider sidewalks can be turned into MUTs, bus lanes often permit cyclists (maybe not in Canada but in many parts of the world, and this may be preemptively blocking that approach?), and things like CafeTO often include space for cycling. So it's easy to see this as just an attack on cycling infrastructure and any attempts to bypass the restrictions.

[danbrotherston]

The wiggling room is in the language: it doesn't actually block creating bike lanes or MUTs, it only blocks the removal of motor vehicle traffic lanes.

When this whole ordeal started I recall there was a process included to get the province's approval to remove lanes. I'm not sure if that was a different bill or, if it was this bill, if that portion of it survived. It may have been meaningless regardless.

nor would the conversion of a parking lane into a bike lane, MUT or wider sidewalk.

I think it generally would, as "parking lanes" are usually motor vehicle lanes, albeit useless ones for driving in.

Despite the other restrictions included, I do wonder if this is only meant to target cycling. Wider sidewalks can be turned into MUTs, bus lanes often permit cyclists (maybe not in Canada but in many parts of the world, and this may be preemptively blocking that approach?), and things like CafeTO often include space for cycling. So it's easy to see this as just an attack on cycling infrastructure and any attempts to bypass the restrictions.

At the very least, some staff at the city of London disagree with this assessment. They felt that their improvements were safe because they only ever repurposed parking, and not general travel.

But this does probably nuke their BRT plans. What a fucking disaster. No exaggeration, this probably sets the city of London back 20 years, an entire generation.

[Acitta]

The wiggling room is in the language: it doesn't actually block creating bike lanes or MUTs, it only blocks the removal of motor vehicle traffic lanes.

When this whole ordeal started I recall there was a process included to get the province's approval to remove lanes. I'm not sure if that was a different bill or, if it was this bill, if that portion of it survived. It may have been meaningless regardless.

nor would the conversion of a parking lane into a bike lane, MUT or wider sidewalk.

I think it generally would, as "parking lanes" are usually motor vehicle lanes, albeit useless ones for driving in.

Despite the other restrictions included, I do wonder if this is only meant to target cycling. Wider sidewalks can be turned into MUTs, bus lanes often permit cyclists (maybe not in Canada but in many parts of the world, and this may be preemptively blocking that approach?), and things like CafeTO often include space for cycling. So it's easy to see this as just an attack on cycling infrastructure and any attempts to bypass the restrictions.

The bill also prohibits bus-only lanes.

[panamaniac]

When this whole ordeal started I recall there was a process included to get the province's approval to remove lanes. I'm not sure if that was a different bill or, if it was this bill, if that portion of it survived. It may have been meaningless regardless.


I think it generally would, as "parking lanes" are usually motor vehicle lanes, albeit useless ones for driving in.

Despite the other restrictions included, I do wonder if this is only meant to target cycling. Wider sidewalks can be turned into MUTs, bus lanes often permit cyclists (maybe not in Canada but in many parts of the world, and this may be preemptively blocking that approach?), and things like CafeTO often include space for cycling. So it's easy to see this as just an attack on cycling infrastructure and any attempts to bypass the restrictions.

The bill also prohibits bus-only lanes.

Is there a specific provision in the Bill that you can cite?  My understanding was that existing bus lanes are not affected.  Don't know about planned future bus lanes.

[Acitta]

The bill also prohibits bus-only lanes.

Is there a specific provision in the Bill that you can cite?  My understanding was that existing bus lanes are not affected.  Don't know about planned future bus lanes.

I read it in the posted article. I didn't read the bill.

[ijmorlan]

Despite the other restrictions included, I do wonder if this is only meant to target cycling. Wider sidewalks can be turned into MUTs, bus lanes often permit cyclists (maybe not in Canada but in many parts of the world, and this may be preemptively blocking that approach?), and things like CafeTO often include space for cycling. So it's easy to see this as just an attack on cycling infrastructure and any attempts to bypass the restrictions.

I have to say I think the notion of bus/bike lanes is very questionable. Buses need to be able to zoom along at full speed (whatever speed that is on a particular road), not worry about tiny vehicles that can’t go at motor vehicle speeds unless they’re ridden by very athletic people.

But that’s a local planning decision, not one for a bunch of right-wing yahoos to make at the provincial legislature level.

[plam]

I have to say I think the notion of bus/bike lanes is very questionable. Buses need to be able to zoom along at full speed (whatever speed that is on a particular road), not worry about tiny vehicles that can’t go at motor vehicle speeds unless they’re ridden by very athletic people.

But that’s a local planning decision, not one for a bunch of right-wing yahoos to make at the provincial legislature level.

Buses are actually kind of slow in practice, especially when there are lots of buses all going down the same corridor and they're stopping all the time. They don't hit full speed that often unless they're BRT.

NZ has "bus lanes" which be used by buses, bicycles, motorcycles/scooters, and taxis, and "bus only" lanes which can only be used by buses. It's kind of confusing.

[dtkvictim]

I have to say I think the notion of bus/bike lanes is very questionable. Buses need to be able to zoom along at full speed (whatever speed that is on a particular road), not worry about tiny vehicles that can’t go at motor vehicle speeds unless they’re ridden by very athletic people.

But that’s a local planning decision, not one for a bunch of right-wing yahoos to make at the provincial legislature level.

Agreed, the videos I've seen of them in the UK seem not so great for everyone involved. I just thought the province might view it as a loophole to building bike lanes. Maybe the municipalities could have tried taking away car lanes to make bus lanes, then allow bikes to use them, and then possibly don't route any buses through them.

Either way, no bus lanes is pretty devastating on its own, especially for a place like Toronto. More of them (and dedicated streetcar right of ways) would probably have a bigger positive impact on moving people quickly than anything else.

[tomh009]

Is there a specific provision in the Bill that you can cite?  My understanding was that existing bus lanes are not affected.  Don't know about planned future bus lanes.

I read it in the posted article. I didn't read the bill.

The bill amended the Highway Traffic Act, and the changes only impact conversion of traffic lanes. Here is the wording:

Code:

195.3 (1) Except as permitted by the regulations, a municipality shall not, by by-law or otherwise, reduce or permit a reduction in the number of marked lanes available for travel by motor vehicles on a highway or a portion of a highway under the municipality’s jurisdiction and control for any of the following purposes:

1. A bicycle lane.
2. Any other prescribed purpose.

Note that only conversions to bicycle lanes are prescribed at this time, but the provincial government could issue regulations at any time forbidding lane reductions for other uses.

https://www.ontario.ca/laws/statute/s25014#sched5s1

[danbrotherston]

I read it in the posted article. I didn't read the bill.

The bill amended the Highway Traffic Act, and the changes only impact conversion of traffic lanes. Here is the wording:

Code:

195.3 (1) Except as permitted by the regulations, a municipality shall not, by by-law or otherwise, reduce or permit a reduction in the number of marked lanes available for travel by motor vehicles on a highway or a portion of a highway under the municipality’s jurisdiction and control for any of the following purposes:

1. A bicycle lane.
2. Any other prescribed purpose.

Note that only conversions to bicycle lanes are prescribed at this time, but the provincial government could issue regulations at any time forbidding lane reductions for other uses.

https://www.ontario.ca/laws/statute/s25014#sched5s1

That is such an insane law. “I love cars and you must always maximize space for them, but I especially hate bicycles and although I am already prohibiting taking space from cars for any reason, I will single out bicycles again”

However, if engineers were flexible and activists were smart we would use this as a cudgel against widening roads. “Widening roads is a risk because by law you can never narrow them.”

[tomh009]

That is such an insane law. “I love cars and you must always maximize space for them, but I especially hate bicycles and although I am already prohibiting taking space from cars for any reason, I will single out bicycles again”

That pretty much sums it up.