Grand River Transit

[danbrotherston]

That is nuts. Free transit on New Year's Eve is practically a tradition in North America by now. Driving under the influence is still very much an issue, and giving people more easy options to get home safely is a good thing.

As with other initiatives to increase access, it's also good sales and marketing.

I was thinking on New Year's Eve, additionally, the weather was bad. I know there is little chance of this happening here in Waterloo Region, but there is nothing stopping GRT from offering fare-free rides during inclement weather. If they are planning on running the Ion, but the police services are telling people to avoid travelling by car if possible, I think it would make sense to let people board without a fare.

Free fares during inclement weather is actually a bad idea. You take a rush hour when transit is already busy, and dump a bunch more people on that don’t normally take it, while collecting no additional fares. So the version of transit that the new people see is the worst version of it, and you can’t really take the sudden surge anyway. Additionally, loyal customers who are already using a monthly pass get no benefit whatsoever, and in fact get worse service due to the extra people.

Free fares on New Year’s, by contrast, is a great idea. It’s not rush hour, so you’re not further overburdening the system. And since it’s planned, you can run sufficient service to meet the need.

I don't think this is true in KW...I haven't ridden transit during rush hour for a while, but before the pandemic, rush hour transit was never crush capacity and rarely even full with the rare exception being campus buses in September .

The point of using fares to moderate demand makes sense, but only when demand outstrips supply.

Of course, it would be nice if transit had priority and separated spaces so that when inclement weather hits, transit performance would remain good. Which means the rest of the logic follows, transit will be bad during those times. That said, all else being equal, service would actually get better because service is always better when not collecting fares because collecting fares takes time.

FWIW...we have a second day of snow here in the Netherlands, and while trains are operating more or less smoothly, the buses are a complete mess.

[Rainrider22]

I wonder what the actual lost revenue would be for one night of free service ? I cant be significant enough to negatively impact the budget...

[neonjoe]

If I recall correctly the free service in the past was funded by a corporate sponsorship.

[bravado]

I'm looking forward to the next winter holiday sidewalk plowing service brought to you by Domino's or something

[Acitta]

I'm looking forward to the next winter holiday sidewalk plowing service brought to you by Domino's or something

Maybe GRT could sell sponsorships to clean bus stops. "This stop has been cleared of snow courtesy of Big Corporation dot com". Coming back from the Levee this afternoon, while getting off the bus with my cane, I tripped over the snow bank at the bus stop and fell, prompting the bus driver to leave the bus to help me up. I don't know who the head of GRT is, but if I ever run into him, there may be violence.

[MidTowner]

Free fares during inclement weather is actually a bad idea. You take a rush hour when transit is already busy, and dump a bunch more people on that don’t normally take it, while collecting no additional fares. So the version of transit that the new people see is the worst version of it, and you can’t really take the sudden surge anyway. Additionally, loyal customers who are already using a monthly pass get no benefit whatsoever, and in fact get worse service due to the extra people.

Free fares on New Year’s, by contrast, is a great idea. It’s not rush hour, so you’re not further overburdening the system. And since it’s planned, you can run sufficient service to meet the need.

I don't think this is true in KW...I haven't ridden transit during rush hour for a while, but before the pandemic, rush hour transit was never crush capacity and rarely even full with the rare exception being campus buses in September .

The point of using fares to moderate demand makes sense, but only when demand outstrips supply.

Of course, it would be nice if transit had priority and separated spaces so that when inclement weather hits, transit performance would remain good. Which means the rest of the logic follows, transit will be bad during those times. That said, all else being equal, service would actually get better because service is always better when not collecting fares because collecting fares takes time.

FWIW...we have a second day of snow here in the Netherlands, and while trains are operating more or less smoothly, the buses are a complete mess.

It has changed again in the past few months, but you're right that we don't really have a "rush hour" with extremely high loads. Certain routes (8 is the one I know best that experiences this) get near crush loads at different times of day driven by the demand from the college. A route like 34 is never busy, and I doubt a "snow day" with no fare collection would lead to crush loads at 3:00 when shifts end.

You're right that not collecting fares is better than collecting fares. Embarking time is a huge cost, and I think GRT is really bad for this on some routes.

[danbrotherston]

I don't think this is true in KW...I haven't ridden transit during rush hour for a while, but before the pandemic, rush hour transit was never crush capacity and rarely even full with the rare exception being campus buses in September .

The point of using fares to moderate demand makes sense, but only when demand outstrips supply.

Of course, it would be nice if transit had priority and separated spaces so that when inclement weather hits, transit performance would remain good. Which means the rest of the logic follows, transit will be bad during those times. That said, all else being equal, service would actually get better because service is always better when not collecting fares because collecting fares takes time.

FWIW...we have a second day of snow here in the Netherlands, and while trains are operating more or less smoothly, the buses are a complete mess.

It has changed again in the past few months, but you're right that we don't really have a "rush hour" with extremely high loads. Certain routes (8 is the one I know best that experiences this) get near crush loads at different times of day driven by the demand from the college. A route like 34 is never busy, and I doubt a "snow day" with no fare collection would lead to crush loads at 3:00 when shifts end.

You're right that not collecting fares is better than collecting fares. Embarking time is a huge cost, and I think GRT is really bad for this on some routes.

Indeed, and this is doubly so on a day when there might be more people than usual using transit who are not regular riders--like a day with inclement weather.

[ijmorlan]

Good point about the system capacity. I recall a discussion elsewhere on a similar topic related to Toronto, where dumping a bunch of additional people onto the subway at rush hour very much would not work. But I agree that if our system is less crowded it may be OK to encourage more use in bad weather.

[danbrotherston]

Good point about the system capacity. I recall a discussion elsewhere on a similar topic related to Toronto, where dumping a bunch of additional people onto the subway at rush hour very much would not work. But I agree that if our system is less crowded it may be OK to encourage more use in bad weather.

Yeah, in Toronto it definitely would be a problem. Likewise in the Netherlands. We have a huge storm today and all buses are cancelled and for a time nearly all the trains also cancelled. And I figured today would be quieter on the trains, yeah nope. Seems like a lot of people who usually drive are choosing the train today because in addition to being delayed the are absolutely packed to the gills. It’s making the delays even worse.

Every context is different. I even think there are contexts where free transit all the time makes sense.

[tomh009]

I'm looking forward to the next winter holiday sidewalk plowing service brought to you by Domino's or something

Maybe GRT could sell sponsorships to clean bus stops. "This stop has been cleared of snow courtesy of Big Corporation dot com".

That could actually work well. That kind of sponsorship would be much more effective than just an ad, I think.

[neonjoe]

Perhaps the region should get the cities to do the clearing of the bus stops instead of relying on private contractors (some from outside of the region) that seem to not actually care or the contract should have had stricter performance metrics associated with payment.

https://regionofwaterloo.bidsandtenders....1eea54f49c

Here's the contractors that won the tender for Bus Stop clearing

Marquee Landscapes LTD
Mississauga ON, Canada

D Rock Paving
Brampton ON, Canada

LP Landscape Plus Inc
Ariss ON, Canada

[creative]

Are they not required to go with the lowest bid as long as they meet the requirements?

[ZEBuilder]

Are they not required to go with the lowest bid as long as they meet the requirements?

It general depends on what is being bid upon and as such if it is an RFT or an RFP. Generally speaking RFTs are what are the typical low bid, these can be construction contracts, demolition contracts, snow removal, new vehicles, etc. The other case is RFPs which in some cases can be lowest bid, however they can also be ranked, so all the companies can bid but lowest may not always win, this tends to be the case for procurement of engineering services, however I have seen it for road reconstruction contracts but that tends to be more rare.

The Region can really just have penalties in the contract forcing contractors to do the job right. For example a regional inspector (they're often on regional roads reconstruction projects) may not have much to do in the winter as such they could just drive around and do random inspections of bus stops, if they aren't up to spec as per the legally binding contract the contract could face a penalty (should), provided the terms are defined adequately in the contract.