Grand River Transit

[Spokes]

Articulated buses will be on heavy-traffic routes with mostly straight routing, like the 20xes and the 7. We'll see if any other new routes get particularly busy, post Ion launch.

I'm actually really curious to see this play out.  What kind of ripple effect will Ion have.

[tomh009]

I do wonder how ordering NF for a few years has and will for 10 years or so impact our maintenance programs...having to manage two different manufacturers.

I think GRT (and Kitchener Transit before that) generally has had at least two manufacturers' buses in the fleet most of the time, so I don't think the maintenance should be a major issue. And once the current hybrids are retired, that will simplify maintenance.

[tomh009]

Pretty sad that electric buses aren't even on our radar though.

Blame the Ford Government for this. The cancellation of Cap and Trade resulted in the cancellation of the Region's plans for 2 pilot buses and the required infrastructure for the time being. 

It is noted that in 2018, the Region applied for funding to the provincial Municipal Greenhouse Gas Challenge program for a project which included two pilot electric buses and the required infrastructure to support these buses. While the provincial program did not continue, staff are monitoring the development and evolution of fully electric bus technology. The acceptance of this proposal does not restrict the Region from acquiring electric buses through a subsequent procurement initiative.

The hybrid buses we have now, dating back over ten years, did not live up to expectations.

EV technology is evolving rapidly, and there will be additional suppliers, increased manufacturing capacity, and likely improved battery technology coming online in the next few years. The current diesel bus order is prudent, in my opinion, and will put GRT in a good position to procure an EV fleet the next time around.

[danbrotherston]

Blame the Ford Government for this. The cancellation of Cap and Trade resulted in the cancellation of the Region's plans for 2 pilot buses and the required infrastructure for the time being. 

The hybrid buses we have now, dating back over ten years, did not live up to expectations.

EV technology is evolving rapidly, and there will be additional suppliers, increased manufacturing capacity, and likely improved battery technology coming online in the next few years. The current diesel bus order is prudent, in my opinion, and will put GRT in a good position to procure an EV fleet the next time around.

I'm not sure how not investigating EVs at all puts GRT in a better position for procuring EVs in the future, than having EV procurement on the radar would.

[tomh009]

The hybrid buses we have now, dating back over ten years, did not live up to expectations.

EV technology is evolving rapidly, and there will be additional suppliers, increased manufacturing capacity, and likely improved battery technology coming online in the next few years. The current diesel bus order is prudent, in my opinion, and will put GRT in a good position to procure an EV fleet the next time around.

I'm not sure how not investigating EVs at all puts GRT in a better position for procuring EVs in the future, than having EV procurement on the radar would.

Well … I think they can investigate, even if they are buying diesel buses (I can investigate cars or bicycles without buying them, too). They can learn from other cities' experience with EV buses. And, yes, they could (have) run a pilot with a few buses even while proceeding with this procurement.

My point is that today is likely till to early to do a wholesale switch to electric. By the time the current order has been completely delivered will likely be a much better time.

[Spokes]

Fullerton also announced that universities and colleges will have to give students the option of what additional fees they pay, such as those that fund campus organizations and clubs. Some will remain mandatory, Fullerton said, including walksafe programs, health and counselling, athletics and recreation and academic support.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/p...-1.4981987

Could this end up killing UPass?

[Canard]

Hybrids are simpler than conventional ICE-only vehicles Tom. My hybrid has far fewer things or moving parts to go wrong than a typical car.

[tomh009]

Hybrids are simpler than conventional ICE-only vehicles Tom. My hybrid has far fewer things or moving parts to go wrong than a typical car.

A typical hybrid vehicle is a parallel one, with both battery-electric and conventional ICE powertrains, so it is arguably more complex. A series hybrid (such as a BMW i3) is simpler, as it only has an electric powertrain, and then a gasoline engine to generate power. (I don't know which type the GRT buses were.) Pure BEV is the simplest, however.

But anyway, my point wasn't about complexity, but about the maturity of the BEV buses (and their manufacturing). BYD is making electric buses, but they have very limited capacity for now, and there are really no other viable manufacturers for the North American market right now, as far as I know. Getting 50 BEV buses would take a long time due to manufacturing constraints, and there isn't effective competition to keep prices down. Batteries are still evolving, and 3-4 years from now there will be far more choices for BEV buses.

[Canard]

You said the fleet maintenance should get simpler when the hybrids retire, implying they added some kind of horrible to deal with complexity that was causing issues.

I’m just saying it’s a myth that hybrids are complex. The transmission in my Prius has a planetary gearset and that’s it. Motor/Generator on the ring and sun, engine to planet carrier. Done. It’s super-simple.

[Bob_McBob]

Fullerton also announced that universities and colleges will have to give students the option of what additional fees they pay, such as those that fund campus organizations and clubs. Some will remain mandatory, Fullerton said, including walksafe programs, health and counselling, athletics and recreation and academic support.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/p...-1.4981987

Could this end up killing UPass?

Came here to ask the same question. It seems like any negotiated group discount like this will probably die if all students are allowed to pick and choose what they pay. it's hard not to imagine that particular legislative decision is more sinister and intended to target various campus  groups PC voters don't like though.

[tomh009]

You said the fleet maintenance should get simpler when the hybrids retire, implying they added some kind of horrible to deal with complexity that was causing issues.

I’m just saying it’s a myth that hybrids are complex. The transmission in my Prius has a planetary gearset and that’s it. Motor/Generator on the ring and sun, engine to planet carrier. Done. It’s super-simple.

Ah … simpler in the sense that there is one fewer variant to service.

[trainspotter139]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/p...-1.4981987

Could this end up killing UPass?

Came here to ask the same question. It seems like any negotiated group discount like this will probably die if all students are allowed to pick and choose what they pay. it's hard not to imagine that particular legislative decision is more sinister and intended to target various campus  groups PC voters don't like though.

U-Passes are paid through the college/university ancillary fees and not the student union fees which I believe will be unaffected by the changes

[timc]

The hybrid buses we have now, dating back over ten years, did not live up to expectations.

Whose expectations? I thought they did as well as expected.

[trainspotter139]

The hybrid buses we have now, dating back over ten years, did not live up to expectations.

Whose expectations? I thought they did as well as expected.

The first hybrids they bought were of the parallel type and the hybrid drives in them are horribly unreliable. (Nova Bus didn't offer a series type hybrid at the time of purchase) The TTC ordered series type hybrids for all its hybrids which were far more reliable than the parallel type but the older Orion VII Hybrids also have some reliability issues with the hybrid drives because they weren't a mature enough technology when they were purchased. This current gen model that the TTC ordered recent seems to be much more reliable than previous gen.

[Bob_McBob]

U-Passes are paid through the college/university ancillary fees and not the student union fees which I believe will be unaffected by the changes

I'm not really seeing the distinction between the Feds fee, Feds administered fee, and student services fee in this respect. They just happen to be bundled that way at UW. The PCs have left universities mostly in the dark about what will be deemed a "non-essential" service that students must be allowed to opt out of. Most of the examples fall under the student services fee, not the Feds (student union) fee.