Grand River Transit

[jamincan]

If some developers build some no-parking developments and then can’t sell them because they screwed up the parking, that’s on them, just like any other decision made in the course of business.

It's not really. Once something is built, we generally have to live with the consequences of it for a long time afterward.

[ijmorlan]

If some developers build some no-parking developments and then can’t sell them because they screwed up the parking, that’s on them, just like any other decision made in the course of business.

It's not really. Once something is built, we generally have to live with the consequences of it for a long time afterward.

The owners of the property have to live with it. Maybe they fix it by buying a nearby vacant lot for parking, maybe they knock down the last store in the strip mall for parking, maybe they change the use of the property to something with less parking demand. Regardless, it’s their problem to fix, just as it would be Zehr’s problem to fix if they didn’t install enough refrigeration capacity and needed to have a renovation to put it in later. In a free society, people will make mistakes, and sometimes they just need to figure it out for themselves. Right now we require everybody to make the opposite mistake. Much better to have some people screw up than everybody. We can’t prevent some properties from being poorly designed anyhow. What’s so special about parking that we think we can tell the owners the right amount?

[danbrotherston]

It's not really. Once something is built, we generally have to live with the consequences of it for a long time afterward.

The owners of the property have to live with it. Maybe they fix it by buying a nearby vacant lot for parking, maybe they knock down the last store in the strip mall for parking, maybe they change the use of the property to something with less parking demand. Regardless, it’s their problem to fix, just as it would be Zehr’s problem to fix if they didn’t install enough refrigeration capacity and needed to have a renovation to put it in later. In a free society, people will make mistakes, and sometimes they just need to figure it out for themselves. Right now we require everybody to make the opposite mistake. Much better to have some people screw up than everybody. We can’t prevent some properties from being poorly designed anyhow. What’s so special about parking that we think we can tell the owners the right amount?

It is really ironic how our country fears this idea.

We're a capitalist country in most ways.  We trust the invisible hand of the market for many things, hell, even our last mile internet service, which probably shouldn't be entirely free market.  Of course, some things we trust to central planning, and sometimes they have positive outcomes, or at least the outcomes we're aiming for (i.e., staying on the transport trend, we centrally plan what safety features must be required on cars, and that has reduced fatalities on our roads)...yet for parking, we centrally plan it, it has enormous negative consequences that we are well aware of, yet we are terrified of considering another option.

[jamincan]

??? Have I come across as having some sort of free-market libertarian leaning on here? I find it ironic that people who believe the government can positively influencing the form and structure of our communities would so easily have them relinquish such an important planning tool to the free market.

I'm well aware of how important parking availability is in influencing the form of our communities and it's for that reason that I think any changes to policies around it have to be carefully considered and cautious. Like it or not, people have to live with the consequences of neighbours' decisions all the time; it's one of the primary reasons we have land-use planning in the first place.

[taylortbb]

We don't insulate businesses from other poor decisions. As said above, it's not easy to fix inadequate freezer capacity in a Zehrs, but we don't try to regulate it. I should be like houses near the landfill or airport, write the notices into the title. "This house has one parking spot, and no more are available. You should not purchase if you require more parking". That way people can't claim ignorance.

[danbrotherston]

??? Have I come across as having some sort of free-market libertarian leaning on here? I find it ironic that people who believe the government can positively influencing the form and structure of our communities would so easily have them relinquish such an important planning tool to the free market.

I'm well aware of how important parking availability is in influencing the form of our communities and it's for that reason that I think any changes to policies around it have to be carefully considered and cautious.

I definitely take a pragmatic approach to government planning, but that's exactly why I oppose parking minimums.  They (along with single use suburban zoning) have proven to be one of the word planning decisions we've ever made.  They're a great example of epic unintended consequences.

So yeah, I mean, I wouldn't necessarily be opposed to continuing to centrally plan things like parking, with say, a maximum, or requirements on sharing between uses, but, man, parking minimums have to go...they are truly terrible, letting it be marked planned is a good start, from which you can apply government regulations as needed to solve the problems that market might naturally have, that cannot otherwise be solved with pricing.

[Spokes]

I think that for the average person that drives, the only thing that will make them use transit is when it's cheaper and faster than driving/parking. Right now it's neither.

I remember working downtown Ottawa when I was a student. The first two days of work I drove 55 minutes to get to the office for 9am (which was normally a 20 minute drive, max) and paid $15 for parking. The third day I took the bus. $3 or whatever it was and 35 minutes. You can guess what I did from that point forward.

[Spokes]

I would take the bus every day if it were 4/3 the speed of my commute. In other words, I’m willing to add a little bit of time (and spend more money, since Bus is more expensive than my car) for the luxury of sitting and not driving. But it’s such a huge difference in time that I can’t make it work.

For me personally, this is exactly where I'm at.

[plam]

Typically transit will be cheaper than driving but peoples' cost accounting is different because car costs are pretty hidden (until they're not, eg car repair bills).

Transit is also typically slower in most cases, except when trying to get to heavily contended destinations as in Spokes' example. I don't think we have a lot of such destinations in the region. The universities might be closest to that.

I was reading about, I think, Seattle. Employees who have to pay $12/day to park will shift their modal share to transit. It has to be billed on a per day basis though. Apparently we don't account for monthly bills. Maybe that would work at the universities too.

[ijmorlan]

I was reading about, I think, Seattle. Employees who have to pay $12/day to park will shift their modal share to transit. It has to be billed on a per day basis though. Apparently we don't account for monthly bills. Maybe that would work at the universities too.

That would be good for the universities anyway. UW has a bizarre mix of under- and over-charging for parking. On the one hand, employee parking is $43/month, which really isn’t very much and leads to waiting lists for preferred lots (note, too, that the rate is the same for every lot, even though some lots and parking spaces are more valuable than others). On the other hand, parking for one day is $5 or $6 in most cases. So those monthly people have zero incentive to car pool or take other transportation some days; and even if somebody only needs to park 2 days per week they’re still better off getting a monthly pass.

There is also a free lot a bit further away, but it’s always free so sometimes it fills up. Meanwhile, there are acres of convenient staff parking that I can’t use even at 6AM on a Saturday when they are empty. And incidentally the (empty) visitor parking is still $6 at that time.

What they should do is eliminate the monthly pass and just charge everywhere SFPark-style. The only exception I can see at all is that it probably makes sense to somehow guarantee employees a parking spot when events like convocation occur. Of course what we actually do is allow free parking at those times, which must make the economists at the University crazy.

[plam]

That would be good for the universities anyway. UW has a bizarre mix of under- and over-charging for parking. On the one hand, employee parking is $43/month, which really isn’t very much and leads to waiting lists for preferred lots (note, too, that the rate is the same for every lot, even though some lots and parking spaces are more valuable than others). On the other hand, parking for one day is $5 or $6 in most cases. So those monthly people have zero incentive to car pool or take other transportation some days; and even if somebody only needs to park 2 days per week they’re still better off getting a monthly pass.

There is also a free lot a bit further away, but it’s always free so sometimes it fills up. Meanwhile, there are acres of convenient staff parking that I can’t use even at 6AM on a Saturday when they are empty. And incidentally the (empty) visitor parking is still $6 at that time.

What they should do is eliminate the monthly pass and just charge everywhere SFPark-style. The only exception I can see at all is that it probably makes sense to somehow guarantee employees a parking spot when events like convocation occur. Of course what we actually do is allow free parking at those times, which must make the economists at the University crazy.

That would make sense. I think $6/day is probably about the right cost. Incentives for part-time carpooling etc don't seem to work great, but make us feel good, so sure. But would I want to fight with stakeholders to dramatically increase parking rates? Nope. Not me.

[jason897]

The EasyGO Farecards are available now! :O I was just at Charles terminal and bought one

[Canard]

Wow, that's early!

Where do you get one? The little booth there on the 2nd floor? Is there an ION logo on it?

[jason897]

Yeah just at the ticket booth on the second floor. Unfortunately there is no ION logo on it

[Canard]

How about sharing a pic