ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit

[ijmorlan]

In this particular case, where the car would be well beyond the stop line, what would be the correct response to the horn of the LRT?  Proceed through the red light and crosswalk?

The correct response to being past the stop line is to continue on out of the “box”. If this is not possible (due to traffic filling the lane ahead) then one must not enter the “box”. With correct driving there would be no need for the LRT to blow its horn and therefore no need to respond to the horn.

[MidTowner]

You can no longer turn right on red from Caroline to Erb heading west (away from uptown). It's apparently causing some significant traffic backups.

...So no matter ones position on right-turn-on-red, it should definitely be allowed here. Also, side note, it’s not clear to me that regular intersection traffic lights control separated right turn lanes. If the light controls it, what is the yield sign for? Without the island it would go without saying that turning traffic must yield to pedestrians. So really the no-right-turn sign should be considered moot, as there is no traffic light controlling the right turn lane...

What if one's position is that it probably shouldn't be allowed anywhere?

[danbrotherston]

...So no matter ones position on right-turn-on-red, it should definitely be allowed here. Also, side note, it’s not clear to me that regular intersection traffic lights control separated right turn lanes. If the light controls it, what is the yield sign for? Without the island it would go without saying that turning traffic must yield to pedestrians. So really the no-right-turn sign should be considered moot, as there is no traffic light controlling the right turn lane...

What if one's position is that it probably shouldn't be allowed anywhere?

The challenge here is it isn't actually a right on red, or, specifically, there is no conflicting traffic to even look for.

This intersection could be designed far far better....the right turn lane should have a separate light simply to separate the flow of trail traffic, from the right turning vehicles.  That would eliminate the congestion, and make it safer for trail users.

[MidTowner]

[quote pid='69527' dateline='1559055514']

The challenge here is it isn't actually a right on red, or, specifically, there is no conflicting traffic to even look for.

This intersection could be designed far far better....the right turn lane should have a separate light simply to separate the flow of trail traffic, from the right turning vehicles.  That would eliminate the congestion, and make it safer for trail users.

[/quote]

There's no conflicting motor vehicle traffic, but there are people on foot. Theoretically, the yield sign gives those people the right of way at all times, but in practice motorists tend to ignore signs and tend to obey signals. I don't think people are generally given the right of way crossing slip lanes, even when motorists have a yield sign.

I guess a separate light for the right turn would be a complete solution. It's too bad the intersection is such a mess, but it is, so that probably would make sense.

[goggolor]

I pass that way on a bike every day, and motorists are mostly good about yielding (except for the one guy on a Harley who got mad at the person in front of him letting some pedestrians past, and screamed "This is not a crosswalk"). However, with this change I wonder if motorists will be as patient.

[chutten]

I pass that way on a bike every day, and motorists are mostly good about yielding (except for the one guy on a Harley who got mad at the person in front of him letting some pedestrians past, and screamed "This is not a crosswalk"). However, with this change I wonder if motorists will be as patient.

I wonder what that screaming driver thought it was... a banana?

[danbrotherston]

I pass that way on a bike every day, and motorists are mostly good about yielding (except for the one guy on a Harley who got mad at the person in front of him letting some pedestrians past, and screamed "This is not a crosswalk"). However, with this change I wonder if motorists will be as patient.

That is bizarre, and just shows how little drivers understand of traffic rules.  It *is* a crosswalk *and* peds have the right of way, which is actually not true for most crosswalks.  Almost anything is a crosswalk.

As for patient motorists, HA! congestion rarely makes motorists patient. I don't find this corner all that bad...I do find it funny how careful drivers are given there isn't any conflicting traffic, frankly, the design of the intersection is truly awful, for pretty much every user.

[goggolor]

A couple tidbits I noticed on Twitter today:

1) "On June 22 Downtown Kitchener will be celebrating the launch of the iON with a massive Downtown party"
https://twitter.com/GKWCC/status/1133370868833357825

2) "Fare vending machines at Conestoga Station, Allen Station and Kitchener Market Station are now ready to use! Credit and debit only until ION service starts".
https://twitter.com/GRT_ROW/status/1133388960699314181

Although it looks like cards sold from these machines will have a $5 charge, so if you need a card get one from the terminal or at an event while they're still free.

[ijmorlan]

What if one's position is that it probably shouldn't be allowed anywhere?

If, after seeing this particular intersection, one still holds that opinion, without modification for local circumstances, then one is not thinking clearly.

As I said in my previous message, there is no conflicting vehicle traffic, and the conflict with pedestrian traffic is exactly the same on red as it is on green, so that is not a colorable reason for disallowing right turn on red at this location.

What they should have done is had two lanes turning the corner, with the turn lane far separated from the main intersection, with a separate traffic light controlling the conflict between the turn lane and crossing pedestrian traffic. The light should be green for pedestrians, except when triggered by vehicle sensors, which should give a maximum of a certain fraction of the time to vehicles when needed. That way at low traffic times it would in the limit be always green both for pedestrians and for motor vehicles not exceeding the target speed.

Starting from the existing situation, the thing to do is probably to install a separate light to control the turn lane. The sensor idea should still work to avoid the need for pedestrians to press a button and to give pedestrians green time automatically whenever there are no vehicles. So the only deficiencies would be the 1-lane bottleneck in the flow and the unnecessarily small pedestrian island.

[danbrotherston]

Exciting times are upon us. Enter to win a golden ticket.

https://www.grt.ca/en/about-grt/ion-gold...ntest.aspx

[KevinL]

Alas, I have no Willy Wonka .gif handy.

[ijmorlan]

As I said in my previous message, there is no conflicting vehicle traffic, and the conflict with pedestrian traffic is exactly the same on red as it is on green, so that is not a colorable reason for disallowing right turn on red at this location.

Just had another thought.

It would make more sense to say “no right turn on green” than “no right turn on red” in this location.

When it’s green, traffic can just sail around the corner, as long as it yields to pedestrians.

When it’s red (without the prohibition), traffic has to stop, and may proceed after stopping, as long as it yields to pedestrians.

Which is safer for pedestrians?

[jason897]

I just saw an idiot in uptown blocking the track turn lane heading into waterloo public square blocking a train (501? It had no number) from going though, despite the train blowing his horn several times. The train had to wait for the lights to go green, and the driver to clear the intersection before waiting for the next cycle.

side note, 501's the only LRV without decals right now so yes it was 501. You may be able to spot its paper sign

Other side note, 510 and 509 most recently got service decals, joining 502, 512, 513, 514.

EDIT 5/29: + 505, 506, 508, 511

[kalis0490]

New video about ION by Reece Martin:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2o7ozV-o8c

[Bob_McBob]

Having a nice discussion with someone on Reddit who's spent years bitterly complaining about LRT spending and now says $1500 in prizes is "lame or underwhelming" and the region should be handing out $100,000. You can't win with these people, can you?