The Metz (Schneiders site redevelopment)

[tomh009]

Why do developers always seem to have to make a new main street in their development when they're already right beside a perfectly acceptable one?

Zoning is the general answer I believe. Courtland is residential on the other side, so it probably requires huge front lawn-style setbacks, probably doesn't allow commercial, etc. On regional roads we heavily restrict driveways because they might slow down traffic. It's all just more 1970s planning that's deeply embedded in our policies, and the attitudes of a lot of people that work at the municipalities.

They have the zoning they need for the property. But I don't see how Courtland (assuming this is the proposal) would work well as the only road given how deep the property is.

[taylortbb]

There are, or have been at one time or another in the past, many commercial uses along the other side of Courtland between Borden and Stirling.

Sure, we have lots of things in our cities that aren't allowed to be built by today's zoning. The past commercial might make the city more receptive, but I expect neighbourhood objection would be fierce.

They have the zoning they need for the property. But I don't see how Courtland (assuming this is the proposal) would work well as the only road given how deep the property is.

I didn't interpret "main street" to mean only street. I think a development of this size obviously needs internal streets. My interpretation of the question is, why is the "main" street, with all the commercial, always buried inside the development. Putting all the commercial along Courtland would likely make it far more visible, and therefore likely far more successful. Being "on the way" is incredibly valuable for a small business. Given I assume successful retail is more profitable, I doubt developers sabotage their retail intentionally.

[GarthDanlor]

Another decade long Auburn hole in the ground - yay...

Here is their overall site concept and a rough timeline. Assuming things stay on track, by 2023, we should already have something resembling a neighbourhood, even if many buildings will remain to be built.





The full presentation is here:
https://www.kitchener.ca/en/resourcesGen...e-Metz.pdf

Would have loved to see either Palmer or Kent punched through to Mill but it looks like that will never happen.

[jamincan]

taylorbb is right, I meant why does the commercial component end up being internal to the development.

[Acitta]

taylorbb is right, I meant why does the commercial component end up being internal to the development.

Because they are using the existing three buildings for commercial development.

[tomh009]

They have the zoning they need for the property. But I don't see how Courtland (assuming this is the proposal) would work well as the only road given how deep the property is.

I didn't interpret "main street" to mean only street. I think a development of this size obviously needs internal streets. My interpretation of the question is, why is the "main" street, with all the commercial, always buried inside the development. Putting all the commercial along Courtland would likely make it far more visible, and therefore likely far more successful. Being "on the way" is incredibly valuable for a small business. Given I assume successful retail is more profitable, I doubt developers sabotage their retail intentionally.

Is it really buried? The buildings they are repurposing for commercial are in a compact block at the corner of the property, bounded by Kent, Courtland, Borden and OFW. It's certainly as visible as any random strip mall would be.

Now, if they had torn down those buildings, too, they could indeed have put all the commercial facing Courtland. But, to me, now they would be (visually) turning their backs on the people living in the Metz. And we would have lost the few remaining buildings. Would having all Courtland-facing commercial be worth that?

[panamaniac]

Here is their overall site concept and a rough timeline. Assuming things stay on track, by 2023, we should already have something resembling a neighbourhood, even if many buildings will remain to be built.





The full presentation is here:
https://www.kitchener.ca/en/resourcesGen...e-Metz.pdf

Would have loved to see either Palmer or Kent punched through to Mill but it looks like that will never happen.

I keep hoping that there will be a pedestrian path under the tracks and over to Mill to link up with Borden Parkway.  If there’s any serious community input into the project, one would think it would come up.

[tomh009]

Would have loved to see either Palmer or Kent punched through to Mill but it looks like that will never happen.

I keep hoping that there will be a pedestrian path under the tracks and over to Mill to link up with Borden Parkway.  If there’s any serious community input into the project, one would think it would come up.

That should not be so expensive and would be a big win for pedestrians (and hopefully also cyclists).

[Momo26]

Are these 6 Massive towers all the same color and facing the same direction with the same shape, going to look like a massive ghetto 20 years from now? There's gotta be some variety..

[GarthDanlor]

I keep hoping that there will be a pedestrian path under the tracks and over to Mill to link up with Borden Parkway.  If there’s any serious community input into the project, one would think it would come up.

That should not be so expensive and would be a big win for pedestrians (and hopefully also cyclists).

Not to mention that it would cut a few minutes off the walk to TWB for those living in the neighborhoods next to and across from the Schneider's property!

[tomh009]

Are these 6 Massive towers all the same color and facing the same direction with the same shape, going to look like a massive ghetto 20 years from now? There's gotta be some variety..

You ask questions that no one has answers to at this time ...

[Rainrider22]

That should not be so expensive and would be a big win for pedestrians (and hopefully also cyclists).

Not to mention that it would cut a few minutes off the walk to TWB for those living in the neighborhoods next to and across from the Schneider's property!

Love TWB... bought one of their masks this weekend ..
Pleas get in and support them...  they are really great

[panamaniac]

That should not be so expensive and would be a big win for pedestrians (and hopefully also cyclists).

Not to mention that it would cut a few minutes off the walk to TWB for those living in the neighborhoods next to and across from the Schneider's property!

Not to mention the walk to Queen Elizabeth P.S.  Although I suspect that any kids would be bussed to school.

[ac3r]

Are these 6 Massive towers all the same color and facing the same direction with the same shape, going to look like a massive ghetto 20 years from now? There's gotta be some variety..

Absolutely haha. It's all going to look bad. The entire site plan and the architecture for the buildings was copy and pasted, so to speak. The only positive thing about this is that it'll provide more housing and tempt other developers to start redevelopments in this area of the urban core.

[panamaniac]

Are these 6 Massive towers all the same color and facing the same direction with the same shape, going to look like a massive ghetto 20 years from now? There's gotta be some variety..

Absolutely haha. It's all going to look bad. The entire site plan and the architecture for the buildings was copy and pasted, so to speak. The only positive thing about this is that it'll provide more housing and tempt other developers to start redevelopments in this area of the urban core.

That reminds me - what is the plan for the large parking lot off Kent Ave?  It was a Schneiders lot, was it not?  Was it included in the sale of the main site?