Downtown outdoor spaces

[jamincan]

The plot of land shown really can't exist in a natural state anymore. We can choose not to intervene and allow the plants and animal life to grow unfettered, but the result is not really anymore natural than an overgrown vacant lot is. That said, we might choose to manage it to enhance insect and small animal life, but even then, the best course of action is unlikely to be to leave it untouched.

[dtkvictim]

Work being done to the bridge nearest Park St.

On the topic of Victoria Park bridges, I wish at least one of them were wider. They are all too narrow to cycle across, but Victoria park is the only option separated from motor vehicles to get from downtown to the IHT. Although, cycling through the park in general is very unpleasant, so any other option would have been welcome too...

[danbrotherston]

Work being done to the bridge nearest Park St.

On the topic of Victoria Park bridges, I wish at least one of them were wider. They are all too narrow to cycle across, but Victoria park is the only option separated from motor vehicles to get from downtown to the IHT. Although, cycling through the park in general is very unpleasant, so any other option would have been welcome too...

I've heard a rumour that the new bridge will be 3 meters wide (which is still substandard mind you) which should improve things significantly.

The park really is unpleasant to ride in at busy times. I usually use David St. but unfortunately it's closed now.

[Acitta]

On the topic of Victoria Park bridges, I wish at least one of them were wider. They are all too narrow to cycle across, but Victoria park is the only option separated from motor vehicles to get from downtown to the IHT. Although, cycling through the park in general is very unpleasant, so any other option would have been welcome too...

I have never had a problem riding across those bridges, though it is sometimes necessary to stop for pedestrians. Why do you find cycling through the park unpleasant? It is a very pleasant park.

[dtkvictim]

I've heard a rumour that the new bridge will be 3 meters wide (which is still substandard mind you) which should improve things significantly.

The park really is unpleasant to ride in at busy times. I usually use David St. but unfortunately it's closed now.

So, based on that rumour, I guess this bridge is being replaced now?

Yes, it takes significantly longer to cycle through the park than it does down David St because I don't like running over children and oblivious folk. I'm comfortable with David St, but the person I ride with the most isn't. The Jubilee intersection can get very busy, and being between parked cars on the right and passing cars on the left is uncomfortable for many. I think the fact that the cycling grid considers this the primary way to get to the IHT is a big oversight.

[dtkvictim]

On the topic of Victoria Park bridges, I wish at least one of them were wider. They are all too narrow to cycle across, but Victoria park is the only option separated from motor vehicles to get from downtown to the IHT. Although, cycling through the park in general is very unpleasant, so any other option would have been welcome too...

I have never had a problem riding across those bridges, though it is sometimes necessary to stop for pedestrians. Why do you find cycling through the park unpleasant? It is a very pleasant park.

I imagine our different experience might be based on when we go through? I'm not commuting by bicycle right now, so my trips all tend to be after work hours on nice days and weekends, exactly when the park is full of children or people out for recreation.

[Acitta]

I have never had a problem riding across those bridges, though it is sometimes necessary to stop for pedestrians. Why do you find cycling through the park unpleasant? It is a very pleasant park.

I imagine our different experience might be based on when we go through? I'm not commuting by bicycle right now, so my trips all tend to be after work hours on nice days and weekends, exactly when the park is full of children or people out for recreation.

Well then you go slow and enjoy it which is what parks are for. If you are in a rush take Victoria or Queen.

[nms]

Victoria Park is definitely a well-used park. One wonders whether it will only get busier to the point of over-crowding as more development is brought online. The play area in particular can get quite crowded during the busy times.

[jamincan]

Park space is really important and often neglected. This isn't a huge problem yet in Kitchener, but downtown Toronto is a clear example of how it can turn into a much bigger and more expensive problem if it's not addressed right away.

[danbrotherston]

I imagine our different experience might be based on when we go through? I'm not commuting by bicycle right now, so my trips all tend to be after work hours on nice days and weekends, exactly when the park is full of children or people out for recreation.

Well then you go slow and enjoy it which is what parks are for. If you are in a rush take Victoria or Queen.

"Take Victoria or Queen". I mean David is a reasonable option, although some still find it intimidating, but neither Victoria not Queen are remotely cycleable.

Of course the park itself is pleasant but even when I am not in a rush, on say Saturday, the park is so full, I might as well just walk, it's dangerous to try and actually cycle at anything other than a walking pace.

[ijmorlan]

I think there should be a path along the south side of the railway line all the way from the IHT to the (future) transit hub. The part from the IHT rail crossing to Victoria could be built now and would help the situation in Victoria Park. The part from Victoria to Park would probably have to be done in conjunction with redevelopment of that block. The part from Park to the transit terminal could be done now, possibly with the cooperation of whoever owns those parking lots, but wouldn’t be very useful without the rest and without the transit terminal.

[danbrotherston]

I think there should be a path along the south side of the railway line all the way from the IHT to the (future) transit hub. The part from the IHT rail crossing to Victoria could be built now and would help the situation in Victoria Park. The part from Victoria to Park would probably have to be done in conjunction with redevelopment of that block. The part from Park to the transit terminal could be done now, possibly with the cooperation of whoever owns those parking lots, but wouldn’t be very useful without the rest and without the transit terminal.

Lol...that is the region/city's "long term vision"...

It's also waiting for a different universe to be done. Someone other than CN would have to own the tracks, and an agency with more ambition than the region would have to be willing to build it.

[Acitta]

Well then you go slow and enjoy it which is what parks are for. If you are in a rush take Victoria or Queen.

"Take Victoria or Queen". I mean David is a reasonable option, although some still find it intimidating, but neither Victoria not Queen are remotely cycleable.

Of course the park itself is pleasant but even when I am not in a rush, on say Saturday, the park is so full, I might as well just walk, it's dangerous to try and actually cycle at anything other than a walking pace.

Well, I personally have no problem cycling at a walking pace if there are a lot of pedestrians around. When I am not on a bike, I am a pedestrian and don't want cyclists hurtling at me at high speed on a shared pathway. The IHT is my main route from Kitchener to Waterloo which I take frequently and it attracts a lot of pedestrians on a nice day. I have to go slower than I would like, but I don't resent it. I get annoyed at those cyclists on skinny tires who weave in and out at high speed around the pedestrians instead of going at a more reasonable pace. I think that we might need a speed limit along there at some point.

[ac3r]

Victoria Park is definitely a well-used park. One wonders whether it will only get busier to the point of over-crowding as more development is brought online. The play area in particular can get quite crowded during the busy times.

It will surely get busier as the region grows. It's a shame it can't be expanded in any way. I suppose they could use the Henry Sturm Greenway but that doesn't offer much. There's also a barren lot beside that which seems to do nothing but store dilapidated tractor trailers. If the city bought that, you could make a pretty nice entrance to the park off Victoria and West Ave as well as expand it by quite a lot.

[danbrotherston]

"Take Victoria or Queen". I mean David is a reasonable option, although some still find it intimidating, but neither Victoria not Queen are remotely cycleable.

Of course the park itself is pleasant but even when I am not in a rush, on say Saturday, the park is so full, I might as well just walk, it's dangerous to try and actually cycle at anything other than a walking pace.

Well, I personally have no problem cycling at a walking pace if there are a lot of pedestrians around. When I am not on a bike, I am a pedestrian and don't want cyclists hurtling at me at high speed on a shared pathway. The IHT is my main route from Kitchener to Waterloo which I take frequently and it attracts a lot of pedestrians on a nice day. I have to go slower than I would like, but I don't resent it. I get annoyed at those cyclists on skinny tires who weave in and out at high speed around the pedestrians instead of going at a more reasonable pace. I think that we might need a speed limit along there at some point.

Or maybe...we could actually have designed our transportation infrastructure so that it could handle the number of users who are using it.

What would the speed limit be? 15? 20? 25?...Because if it's 15, that's ridiculously slow for cycling, if it's 25, then that's to fast around pedestrians.

The problem is not behaviour, it's bad infrastructure. Complaining about the users of the infra isn't going to solve any problems. I am not complaining about the pedestrians, I am complaining about the city's failure to accomodate all the users of the infra.