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ION Phase 2 - Cambridge's Light Rail Transit
(05-04-2021, 12:14 PM)danbrotherston Wrote: Yes, I'm not expecting this to save minutes here, but the idea that the train, in the middle of a road of traffic going 70-90km/h (with a limit of 60km/h) is restricted to 50km/h is the kind of idiotic insanity that our engineers have implemented.

Courtland it appears that there are physical problems that are justifying the absurdly low limit, and those are being corrected. The same is not true on Northfield, it's just a normal expectation that the LRT will be 20-40% slower than driving for no reason.

So, embedded track is restricted to 50 km/h and ballasted track (as on Courtland, for example) to 70 km/h. Here us the old post from a few years ago; click on the link to read the rest of the discussion.

(02-19-2019, 09:37 AM)trainspotter139 Wrote:
(02-19-2019, 09:31 AM)Spokes Wrote: When the trains are in a totally isolated area (not in mixed traffic) what kind of speeds will they do?  I'm thinking between Mill and Block Line for example

Maximum of 70 km/h

This is the specification for the speeds, from the original iON RFP documentation set:
https://rapidtransit.regionofwaterloo.ca...ersion.pdf
Quote:(e) The Signal System will be designed to comply with the civil design and restrict speeds to comply with corridor conditions as follows:
(i) The maximum operating speed for the street running section between Conestoga Mall and the Waterloo Spur is 60 km/h.
(ii) The maximum operating speed on the Waterloo Spur section between Northfield Drive and Erb Street is 80 km/h.
(iii) The maximum operating speed on the street running section between Erb Street and Mill Street is 50 km/h.
(iv) The maximum operating speed on the Huron Spur section between Mill Street and Haywood Avenue is 80 km/h.
(v) The maximum operating speed for the side running alignment along Haywood Avenue is 50 km/h.
(vi) The maximum operating speed for the side running alignment along Courtland Avenue is 60 km/h.
(vii) The maximum operating speed for the Hydro One Corridor between Courtland Avenue and Fairview Mall is 80 km/h.

Calculations for the speed at curves or turns can be found in this document:
https://rapidtransit.regionofwaterloo.ca...ersion.pdf
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(05-04-2021, 10:54 AM)neonjoe Wrote: It seems that they have been doing weekend shutdowns of iON between Mill and Fairway to address some deficiency in that stretch. The most recent once was April 23rd. There was one in March and another one in January if I recall.
https://www.grt.ca/en/rider-information/...ption.aspx
May be a coincidence but I don't think any other segments have had this much work since opening.

Its not because there's actual deficiencies in the system it's because they're adding access so the first one was for doing something at the Traynor crossing as well as putting embedded tracks in at Hillmount st for access to Virerra village (development behind blockline station) and the most recent one was to continue working on those two things as the first time they only completed embedded tracks on the north bound section of track.
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Is the Traynor crossing going to be improved? It is a real half assed job with hand formed asphalt and wooden fencing. Are there plans to tunnel it under the tracks...or is the train going to perpetually be forced to slow down as it gets near there? Whenever I ride it from Fairway Station it goes slow, sort of fast, slows down at the Taynor crossing, goes sort of fast, then again slows to a snails pace to cross Courtland, then crawls along to Block Line Station, gets even slower that there might as well be a new word for that as it turns at Hayward, then finally speeds up for the 1km trip to Mill Station, then slows down again and again and again.
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Traynor is definitely going to be improved, with more solid rails and fences and lift arms on each side. Once that is in the trains will no longer need to slow.
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The 35 days of ministerial review of the Stage 2 ION TPAP ended on Thursday, June 10th.

I wonder if we got any negative review back? The Minister of Transport has to explicitly decide to block the project, otherwise it can go ahead.
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This morning the region announced the TPA was approved and they will now begin seeking funding for Stage 2.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2CpU5b2aac
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(06-21-2021, 12:05 PM)Bob_McBob Wrote: This morning the region announced the TPA was approved and they will now begin seeking funding for Stage 2.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2CpU5b2aac

Good. Let's hope we can get a deal now where the Province/Feds pay for it all.
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I wish they'd give us criteria for starting construction other than "after we get funding". Like, if they get funding commitments by 2023 and ridership grows faster than expected, would the put it to tender immediately an star construction in 2024? (IIRC Stage 1 was less than a year from RFQ to RFP to start of construction.)

I don't remember seeing any ridership projections for Stage 2 like there were for Stage 1.
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Stage 2 isn’t really about ridership, is it?
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(06-21-2021, 04:27 PM)panamaniac Wrote: Stage 2 isn’t really about ridership, is it?

It is. A lot of the funding is already there because the Federal and Provincial governments already committed to rapid transit in the region, as has the region itself. Cambridge is seeing a lot of interest from developers of all sorts at the moment. It's a beautifully distinct part of the region and this could boost the economy unlike they've ever experienced before. There is SO much land waiting to get developed. It has a very close 401 access which is absolutely huge when you pair this with access to suburbs, neighbouring cities and freight routes for transportation companies. It will allow for more developers to propose new residential, office and industrial projects (the latter of which is unique, because there are large industrial parks in the city and that can really entice companies/developers to move production, freight/docking or warehouses here rather than in the GTA). I could see many tech companies deciding to base themselves in Cambridge as well and perhaps even more university satellite faculties opening up there (AFAIK they only have the Faculty of Architecture right now).

But to achieve all of that, they need to feel like they are actually part of the rest of the region. All of this is dependent on ridership. They want to feel like they are part of the Region of Waterloo the same way Kitchener and Waterloo basically act as one singular city and we are able to do that because of the expressway, city/regional roads and now the LRT. Offer people a way to get from downtown Cambridge to downtown Kitchener in 30 minutes and the ridership would absolutely skyrocket, since currently the only way between the two is to take a car or one of two pseudo-BRT routes. The LRT will also be able to move a hell of a lot faster than it does through the rest of the region due to how elevated it is between Fairway Station and Preston Station.

I've been pretty involved with the research into the LRT line going into Cambridge. So far, I've found Cambridge to have much fewer objections (at least so far) to the LRT than Kitchener and Waterloo had. They've seen how much the LRT has benefitted the other two cities at this point. We were basically the guinea pigs. Most Cambridge residents acknowledge that they are a struggling city and that having this would be like pouring nitrous into their fuel tanks. Most people do want it, they're just worried about things like property appropriation (which is pretty minimal, at least in the studies done so far), environmental disturbances, traffic issues, school overcrowding etc but all of that can be improved as needed.

It's wayyyyy too early to expect a construction start date. I doubt we'll see any construction start for at least 4 more years. For now, just be pleased to know that the assessment gave it the green light. They're going to get it no matter what.
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(06-21-2021, 04:56 PM)ac3r Wrote:
(06-21-2021, 04:27 PM)panamaniac Wrote: Stage 2 isn’t really about ridership, is it?

I've been pretty involved with the research into the LRT line going into Cambridge. So far, I've found Cambridge to have much fewer objections (at least so far) to the LRT than Kitchener and Waterloo had. They've seen how much the LRT has benefitted the other two cities at this point. We were basically the guinea pigs. Most Cambridge residents acknowledge that they are a struggling city and that having this would be like pouring nitrous into their fuel tanks. Most people do want it, they're just worried about things like property appropriation (which is pretty minimal, at least in the studies done so far), environmental disturbances, traffic issues, school overcrowding etc but all of that can be improved as needed.

Thanks for this — very interesting information! My impression has always been that the anti-LRT people in Cambridge can’t figure out if they are pro-LRT (but want it in Cambridge immediately, not at some unknown time in the future) or actually anti-LRT. It sounds like now that there isn’t the distraction of thinking about the timing of LRT construction in the different cities, the overall mood might be more conducive.

I was going to suggest that Stage 2 is not about ridership in the short term, but in the long term it is. In the short term buses will be capable of taking the load for quite some time. But longer term, by providing higher quality transit in a much larger area, we should be able to develop much more of the city to be transit-friendly, which will lead to much higher ridership. Whenever a new area is opened up for subdivisions it goes without saying that major roads will be constructed on the assumption that there will be traffic. It is high time that we start building transit in the same way.
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(06-21-2021, 05:18 PM)ijmorlan Wrote: Thanks for this — very interesting information! My impression has always been that the anti-LRT people in Cambridge can’t figure out if they are pro-LRT (but want it in Cambridge immediately, not at some unknown time in the future) or actually anti-LRT. It sounds like now that there isn’t the distraction of thinking about the timing of LRT construction in the different cities, the overall mood might be more conducive.

There's a bit of both but honestly, you'd probably struggle to find more than two or three dozen people (slight exaggeration) who are like...no do not build it. Most people are either for it - provided their concerns are taken into consideration and possibly met - or are indifferent.

The ridership angle is kind of unusual. Current ridership on the buses that travel between the two cities right now is fairly minimal all things considered (they're the second largest city in the region but they feel like they're as distant as Guelph). Most people take their car, or don't go to the rest of the region unless they have a reason to. Transportation between these three cities is terrible...you can't really bike there either, without wasting half your day. There aren't that many reasons why people go between the cities unless it's for work/socialization either. But if you magically made an LRT open up tomorrow - like some sort of SimCity god - then I could pretty much guarantee it would be packed full of people. It'd only take about...45 minutes at most to get from downtown Cambridge (Galt) to downtown Kitchener. People would be flocking onto that thing for all sorts of reasons: employment opportunities, to go shop/go to the farmers market, to see friends, to access the GO/VIA trains, for entertainment/festivals or who knows what else.
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(06-21-2021, 04:56 PM)ac3r Wrote: It's wayyyyy too early to expect a construction start date. I doubt we'll see any construction start for at least 4 more years. For now, just be pleased to know that the assessment gave it the green light. They're going to get it no matter what.

I think this is way optimistic. Other sources were saying eight years until construction starts with a finish in 2032.

Or to put it another way...much much too late to deal with climate change.
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(06-21-2021, 07:37 PM)danbrotherston Wrote:
(06-21-2021, 04:56 PM)ac3r Wrote: It's wayyyyy too early to expect a construction start date. I doubt we'll see any construction start for at least 4 more years. For now, just be pleased to know that the assessment gave it the green light. They're going to get it no matter what.

I think this is way optimistic. Other sources were saying eight years until construction starts with a finish in 2032.

Or to put it another way...much much too late to deal with climate change.

We surely won't be done with climate change issues by 2032.

Maybe by the time they build it, they can figure out how to do an embedded track with less concrete (which generates massive CO2).
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So at least one more election cycle for all levels of government. What are the chances that any government will provide the funding regardless of their colours?
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