The COVID-19 pandemic

[jeffster]

Next update will be December 29th.

[jeffster]

Interesting article from the CBC:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/omicron-s...-1.6296669

Overall gist of it is simple: everyone is going to get Covid-19 at some point -- the vaccine can't stop you from getting infected, but it will help prevent hospitalizations or getting sick enough to ruin your day.

[plam]

Interesting article from the CBC:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/omicron-s...-1.6296669

Overall gist of it is simple: everyone is going to get Covid-19 at some point -- the vaccine can't stop you from getting infected, but it will help prevent hospitalizations or getting sick enough to ruin your day.

There's another point, which is that stigma never helps. It didn't help with HIV, it doesn't help with COVID.

I don't think that it's inevitable. I can see a 50% population attack rate, but that is still a 50/50 chance of not having it.

[danbrotherston]

Interesting article from the CBC:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/omicron-s...-1.6296669

Overall gist of it is simple: everyone is going to get Covid-19 at some point -- the vaccine can't stop you from getting infected, but it will help prevent hospitalizations or getting sick enough to ruin your day.

There's another point, which is that stigma never helps. It didn't help with HIV, it doesn't help with COVID.

I don't think that it's inevitable. I can see a 50% population attack rate, but that is still a 50/50 chance of not having it.

Stigma over getting a disease is unhelpful.

Stigma over not getting vaccinated is different I think.

[plam]

There's another point, which is that stigma never helps. It didn't help with HIV, it doesn't help with COVID.

I don't think that it's inevitable. I can see a 50% population attack rate, but that is still a 50/50 chance of not having it.

Stigma over getting a disease is unhelpful.

Stigma over not getting vaccinated is different I think.

I don't think we have to stigmatize not being vaccinated. I do think that it is reasonable and indeed necessary, for public health reasons, to apply discrimination against people who are not vaccinated by choice. I don't actually want to share the air with such people. It's part of keeping the substantial majority of those of us who are vaccinated safe.

That only applies to those who have a choice, of course; I exclude under-5s for instance, since they don't have a choice.

[ijmorlan]

Stigma over getting a disease is unhelpful.

Stigma over not getting vaccinated is different I think.

I don't think we have to stigmatize not being vaccinated. I do think that it is reasonable and indeed necessary, for public health reasons, to apply discrimination against people who are not vaccinated by choice. I don't actually want to share the air with such people. It's part of keeping the substantial majority of those of us who are vaccinated safe.

That only applies to those who have a choice, of course; I exclude under-5s for instance, since they don't have a choice.

Right, for almost all purposes it’s not about being vaccinated but about being vaccine compliant, which means one of three possibilities: being vaccinated, being vaccine-ineligible, or being medically exempted (there are no valid religious exemptions, as far as I know, and there definitely is no such thing as a valid personal conscience exemption).

[danbrotherston]

Stigma over getting a disease is unhelpful.

Stigma over not getting vaccinated is different I think.

I don't think we have to stigmatize not being vaccinated. I do think that it is reasonable and indeed necessary, for public health reasons, to apply discrimination against people who are not vaccinated by choice. I don't actually want to share the air with such people. It's part of keeping the substantial majority of those of us who are vaccinated safe.

That only applies to those who have a choice, of course; I exclude under-5s for instance, since they don't have a choice.

I don't really see how that's different from a stigmata...the only difference is that stigmata's are generally "unfair" but are not required to be. But discriminating against people who are not vaccinated seems like it is stigmatizing.

[ijmorlan]

I don't really see how that's different from a stigmata...the only difference is that stigmata's are generally "unfair" but are not required to be. But discriminating against people who are not vaccinated seems like it is stigmatizing.

Discriminating in what way?

If it’s “no entry to restaurants if you’re not vaccinated” then it’s just a sensible public health precaution. If it’s “you can’t get on the Internet if you’re not vaccinated” then it’s clearly inappropriate targeting of people for irrelevant reasons. There are certainly situations in the middle where a productive discussion could be had on whether a particular instance of discrimination was reasonable and justified or not.

[danbrotherston]

I don't really see how that's different from a stigmata...the only difference is that stigmata's are generally "unfair" but are not required to be. But discriminating against people who are not vaccinated seems like it is stigmatizing.

Discriminating in what way?

If it’s “no entry to restaurants if you’re not vaccinated” then it’s just a sensible public health precaution. If it’s “you can’t get on the Internet if you’re not vaccinated” then it’s clearly inappropriate targeting of people for irrelevant reasons. There are certainly situations in the middle where a productive discussion could be had on whether a particular instance of discrimination was reasonable and justified or not.

The phrase "Sensible public health precautions" describes discrimination. Just like stigmatizing, the negative aspects of the word discrimination (like it being inappropriate and unjust) are not necessary for the word to apply, it's just how the word is usually intended when used to describe effects on people.

But I wouldn't use it that way outside a conversation with people that I largely trust to have an adult conversation. I would however use other terms, like prejudicial and unjustly to be more specific and intentional.

[jwilliamson]

I don't think we have to stigmatize not being vaccinated. I do think that it is reasonable and indeed necessary, for public health reasons, to apply discrimination against people who are not vaccinated by choice. I don't actually want to share the air with such people. It's part of keeping the substantial majority of those of us who are vaccinated safe.

That only applies to those who have a choice, of course; I exclude under-5s for instance, since they don't have a choice.

I don't really see how that's different from a stigmata...the only difference is that stigmata's are generally "unfair" but are not required to be. But discriminating against people who are not vaccinated seems like it is stigmatizing.

Those might be stigmas, but they're certainly not stigmata.

(A stigmata is a wound that appears on someone's body that matches Christ's crucifixion wounds.)

[jeffster]

Israel waiting to green light 4th doses:

https://www.reuters.com/business/healthc...021-12-27/

[jeffster]

Just sharing my 3rd dose experience: I went to the Regional booking site yesterday. They have a neat queuing feature so rather than the site just slowing down, it puts people in a queue and sends them periodic updates on their estimated time remaining. Unfortunately, if one reaches the head of the queue and misses a fairly short window, one has to start over. I kept getting distracted so missed my chance several times. As a result I didn’t book until late afternoon and my appointment will be January 3. On the plus side, that means they're booking tons of appointments. I'll be interested to see the statistics on uptake.

On a related note, I just don't see how we can continue our “be nice” policy of giving people the option of taking expensive cure rather than cheap prevention for Covid. We just don’t have the nursing staff for it. There is a simple way of massively reducing our medical staff shortage: the treatment for Covid is the vaccine. Period (except medical counterindications). No vaccine, no post-infection treatment other than minimal palliative. We don’t give people the choice of going for the gold-plated option in other areas of medicine: they get what the system says they get. I’m just glad I don’t have to make this decision (or pretend publicly that it's unavoidable). Maybe I’m wrong; I don’t know, but I’ve heard bad things about Omicron’s transmissibility.

I didn't bother with the Regions booking site, as we have had nothing but issues with it in the first round (they blamed our carrier for some of the issues). We never did get a contact first and 2nd time.

For this shot, I just signed up with 1 pharmacy and got the text a week later to book the appointment, which is today.

[plam]

Discriminating in what way?

If it’s “no entry to restaurants if you’re not vaccinated” then it’s just a sensible public health precaution. If it’s “you can’t get on the Internet if you’re not vaccinated” then it’s clearly inappropriate targeting of people for irrelevant reasons. There are certainly situations in the middle where a productive discussion could be had on whether a particular instance of discrimination was reasonable and justified or not.

The phrase "Sensible public health precautions" describes discrimination. Just like stigmatizing, the negative aspects of the word discrimination (like it being inappropriate and unjust) are not necessary for the word to apply, it's just how the word is usually intended when used to describe effects on people.

But I wouldn't use it that way outside a conversation with people that I largely trust to have an adult conversation. I would however use other terms, like prejudicial and unjustly to be more specific and intentional.

The other part of it is that the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms guarantees rights subject to reasonable limits as can be justified in a free and democratic society. I would like society to work to reduce all of our exposure to COVID, thanks.

[jeffster]

Interesting article from the CBC:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/omicron-s...-1.6296669

Overall gist of it is simple: everyone is going to get Covid-19 at some point -- the vaccine can't stop you from getting infected, but it will help prevent hospitalizations or getting sick enough to ruin your day.

There's another point, which is that stigma never helps. It didn't help with HIV, it doesn't help with COVID.

I don't think that it's inevitable. I can see a 50% population attack rate, but that is still a 50/50 chance of not having it.

I am not sure if that will actually be true. Currently infection rates are higher among the vaccinated than unvaccinated (something like 0.9x for unvaccinated). Could be that 3 doses changes those numbers, who knows. But at the rate, it appears that everyone has been, or will be, infected at some point.

Perhaps the issue is that vaccinated people are more likely to play fast and loose with their vaccinated family, friends and co-workers, compared to unvaccinated people that might be shunned, disfellowshipped and excommunicated from family, friends and co-workers.

We're going to see eye-popping numbers over the next few weeks, but I also expect it to drop off really quickly by the end of January or in February. The omicron variant will be mild enough for the majority of people that this group is less likely to go through with having their brain swabbed. Especially among the vaccinated and hard-core anti-vaxxers (live by the sword, die by the sword folks).

The next variant is pi, ironically, could arrive by Pi Day (March 14).

[tomh009]

I am not sure if that will actually be true. Currently infection rates are higher among the vaccinated than unvaccinated (something like 0.9x for unvaccinated). Could be that 3 doses changes those numbers, who knows. But at the rate, it appears that everyone has been, or will be, infected at some point.

Perhaps the issue is that vaccinated people are more likely to play fast and loose with their vaccinated family, friends and co-workers, compared to unvaccinated people that might be shunned, disfellowshipped and excommunicated from family, friends and co-workers.

I think you are looking at the infection rates/100,000. The rate for fully vaccinated has consistently been significantly lower than that for unvaccinated. However, in the last seven days (of reported data) the two lines converged at a rather higher rate. The very last day had a higher date for the vaccinated, but it's only a single day. Even that one-week period is really too short. We'll have to wait and see what the numbers look like next week when regular reporting resumes.