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Cycling in Waterloo Region
(01-16-2022, 10:46 PM)tomh009 Wrote:
(01-16-2022, 10:22 PM)danbrotherston Wrote: Even most Kitchener to Waterloo trips are likely to be under 7km.

It could well be. I did check and a trip from Clair Hills (our team has two people in that area) to DTK is almost 10 km. My colleague at my last job (in Waterloo) drove from Pioneer Park to Phillip St, that's 16 km by shortest (not fastest) route. On the other hand, there are many others under 7 km. So, I really don't know.

Yeah, I mean, there are definitely longer trips, but if you look at the population density map, those areas have relatively few people compared with the core.  I'm sure T4T or Stats Can collects this data if someone wants to go digging.

That being said, I'm so tired of that bad faith argument. We KNOW lots of people have short commutes that they drive for. I'm not working to convert people who need to commute by car (because of their employment and housing choices), just as I wouldn't be trying to convert people who commute by boat to car because they live on an island. What bugs me is when drivers believe that not only do they want to drive, but that their choice is the right and only choice and everyone else should do what they do. And it's doubly frustrating because 99% of the time the things drivers complain about is caused by "everyone must drive" policies.
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The Canadian Census has some information from which you could probably derive a pretty good answer:

https://www12.statcan.gc.ca/census-recen...D=1&type=0
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(01-17-2022, 10:31 AM)danbrotherston Wrote: What bugs me is when drivers believe that not only do they want to drive, but that their choice is the right and only choice and everyone else should do what they do.  And it's doubly frustrating because 99% of the time the things drivers complain about is caused by "everyone must drive" policies.


I don't know of any driver that thinks that way.

As for the second part (not bolded) I also don't believe that. Things drivers complain about -- length of commute (not because of traffic, but because of distance), being cut off, being whizzed by a vehicle, only to have it immediately stop in front of you to make a turn. Other grievances are people (be it cars, pedestrians, cyclists) not obeying traffic signals/signs, and jaywalkers. The one that bothers me is when cyclists come at you in the opposite direction -- WHEN THERE IS A FREAKING PROTECTED BIKE LANE! Holy crap. Queens BLVD between Belmont and Westheights is an example of this. You have protected bike lanes -- use the damn things.
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(01-17-2022, 03:12 PM)jeffster Wrote:
(01-17-2022, 10:31 AM)danbrotherston Wrote: What bugs me is when drivers believe that not only do they want to drive, but that their choice is the right and only choice and everyone else should do what they do.  And it's doubly frustrating because 99% of the time the things drivers complain about is caused by "everyone must drive" policies.


I don't know of any driver that thinks that way.

As for the second part (not bolded) I also don't believe that. Things drivers complain about -- length of commute (not because of traffic, but because of distance), being cut off, being whizzed by a vehicle, only to have it immediately stop in front of you to make a turn. Other grievances are people (be it cars, pedestrians, cyclists) not obeying traffic signals/signs, and jaywalkers. The one that bothers me is when cyclists come at you in the opposite direction -- WHEN THERE IS A FREAKING PROTECTED BIKE LANE! Holy crap. Queens BLVD between Belmont and Westheights is an example of this. You have protected bike lanes -- use the damn things.

I'm sorry, drivers don't complain about traffic? Umm...what universe are you living in, because in this universe, complaining about traffic is a national pastime.

As for drivers who believe everyone should drive, are you being serious right now? How many people oppose bike lanes because "nobody bikes"?
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(01-17-2022, 03:18 PM)danbrotherston Wrote:
(01-17-2022, 03:12 PM)jeffster Wrote: I don't know of any driver that thinks that way.

As for the second part (not bolded) I also don't believe that. Things drivers complain about -- length of commute (not because of traffic, but because of distance), being cut off, being whizzed by a vehicle, only to have it immediately stop in front of you to make a turn. Other grievances are people (be it cars, pedestrians, cyclists) not obeying traffic signals/signs, and jaywalkers. The one that bothers me is when cyclists come at you in the opposite direction -- WHEN THERE IS A FREAKING PROTECTED BIKE LANE! Holy crap. Queens BLVD between Belmont and Westheights is an example of this. You have protected bike lanes -- use the damn things.

I'm sorry, drivers don't complain about traffic? Umm...what universe are you living in, because in this universe, complaining about traffic is a national pastime.

As for drivers who believe everyone should drive, are you being serious right now? How many people oppose bike lanes because "nobody bikes"?

Kitchener-Cambridge-Waterloo doesn't have traffic. It really literally has no traffic. Ever, except the odd time that there is an accident on the Expressway that jams things up.

Now, if you're in downtown Toronto, that's a different story. If you're driving to downtown Toronto, unless you're staying at a hotel, you're doing it all wrong.

Perhaps I have different contacts/friends/family than you, but I have heard no complaints about bike lanes. I have heard of complaints on the radio/editorial regarding lanes in Toronto, but I don't live there, and neither do you. We're talking this region.

My universe is this region, I work here, I live here, I don't see traffic, and I don't hear of complaints about traffic or bike lanes. Though there was some woman in Waterloo gripping about bike lanes on University Ave, but that was one person.

Or, maybe it's just me. Having spent too much time in Toronto, I know what traffic looks like. And perhaps I tune people out if they bitch about traffic in this region or bitch about bike lanes. Perhaps I keep the AM radio off because of so much bullcrap with peoples ultra strong and unyielding opinions regarding homelessness, vaccines, politics, bike lanes, traffic, etc.

Or perhaps I am just enlightened enough to realize that people should have an option to use whatever method of transportation they want to use, be it walking, biking, scootering, motorcycling/ebike, transit, car, truck, or whatever (though to be honest, not a fan of gas guzzlers). Just as long as everyone does it safely, and have respect for one another, and obey any applicable laws.
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Literally no traffic? What kind of bollocks is that... plenty of traffic on the downtown streets at rush hour, it's not jammed solid like some places in TO but it's enough that google puts red lines on the map. It's also enough traffic that I've heard people moan and whinge about it.

I used to ride 9-10km from DTK up to the industrial park north of Conestoga mall, it was a very nice commute, particularly when I was working overnights and would work 11-7... this was well over a decade ago so there wasn't any bike lanes on Lexington over the expressway, or the little bit of improvements they've done to the King St/86 interchange by Conestoga mall. Since it was industrial work I didn't have to worry about being too sweaty or anything at work.
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(01-17-2022, 06:58 PM)clasher Wrote: Literally no traffic? What kind of bollocks is that... plenty of traffic on the downtown streets at rush hour, it's not jammed solid like some places in TO but it's enough that google puts red lines on the map. It's also enough traffic that I've heard people moan and whinge about it.

Different definition of “traffic”. As in “I was stuck in traffic”. There can be lots of cars on the road and yet getting stuck in it isn’t going to happen. The kind of traffic that pretty much doesn’t exist in K-W is the “stuck in” kind. Of course it exists here and there, but in many places in Toronto it exists every day for hours. Here it’s once in a while or very briefly. The road in front of my street typically fills up for about 10 minutes at a certain time in the afternoon. That’s not a reason to do anything about it.
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(01-17-2022, 05:16 PM)jeffster Wrote:
(01-17-2022, 03:18 PM)danbrotherston Wrote: I'm sorry, drivers don't complain about traffic? Umm...what universe are you living in, because in this universe, complaining about traffic is a national pastime.

As for drivers who believe everyone should drive, are you being serious right now? How many people oppose bike lanes because "nobody bikes"?

Kitchener-Cambridge-Waterloo doesn't have traffic. It really literally has no traffic. Ever, except the odd time that there is an accident on the Expressway that jams things up.

Now, if you're in downtown Toronto, that's a different story. If you're driving to downtown Toronto, unless you're staying at a hotel, you're doing it all wrong.

Perhaps I have different contacts/friends/family than you, but I have heard no complaints about bike lanes. I have heard of complaints on the radio/editorial regarding lanes in Toronto, but I don't live there, and neither do you. We're talking this region.

My universe is this region, I work here, I live here, I don't see traffic, and I don't hear of complaints about traffic or bike lanes. Though there was some woman in Waterloo gripping about bike lanes on University Ave, but that was one person.

Or, maybe it's just me. Having spent too much time in Toronto, I know what traffic looks like. And perhaps I tune people out if they bitch about traffic in this region or bitch about bike lanes. Perhaps I keep the AM radio off because of so much bullcrap with peoples ultra strong and unyielding opinions regarding homelessness, vaccines, politics, bike lanes, traffic, etc.

Or perhaps I am just enlightened enough to realize that people should have an option to use whatever method of transportation they want to use, be it walking, biking, scootering, motorcycling/ebike, transit, car, truck, or whatever (though to be honest, not a fan of gas guzzlers). Just as long as everyone does it safely, and have respect for one another, and obey any applicable laws.

I commend you for having your network and contacts not include any form of social media (its not particularly constructive). I will note however you do have neighbours that disagree with bike infrastructure pretty enthusiastically...


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I have to agree with jeffster, this region does not really have bad traffic, like, ever. I have studied and have access to vast amounts of traffic data for this region since we use it in my field of work, so I have a pretty good idea of what traffic is like in the region/cities. Anytime we work on a project, we study traffic. 

Very, very, very rarely do the roads ever get backed up into gridlock here. Some reasons why this is the case is that a) we unfortunately developed into a very car centric region, so we have a lot of roads, but most of these were designed fairly well to move vehicles, despite what people think; b) we have a city that did not really have a typical Anglo-American grid road layout and our streets are more similar to Continental European cities, meaning we have roads that snake in all sorts of directions which results in fairly good traffic flow and alternative options for people to take to their destinations; c) we constructed nearly 20 kilometers of freeway (Constoga Expressway) which allows traffic to easily flow through this city, with lots of good arterial roads connecting to them, to different parts of the city and to other highways that flow in and out of the region. Despite Waterloo Region being roughly 30 kilometers by 15 kilometers at its greatest sizes, you can drive across this entire region by car in 30 minutes (using Constoga Mall in north Waterloo to Gatehouse Drive in south Cambridge as an example). Try going 30 kilometers in the GTA by vehicle...it'll take you much, much longer.

When is the last time you got stuck in a traffic jam for 20+ minutes (excluding when there are accidents/extreme weather)? The only places there is gridlocked traffic on a regular basis is on the highways - Highway 8 being a good example, particularly where it merges into the Conestoga Expressway/Highway 7 and on rare occasions, near the exits near Northfield, because those have unfortunately awkward designs that are hard to rectify now. Google putting some red lines on Google Maps is not always that accurate. All Google Maps does is spy on people who willingly leave GPS on but that hardly ever implies heavy traffic in actuality. It tends to analyze data and if certain GPS signals are taking a bit of extra time to navigate a street, it adds up and then puts an alert on Maps. But that's more courtesy for people who use the service, it isn't a good way to determine true traffic patterns. We use much more complicated things than your phone to measure that sort of stuff.

Now, unless "traffic" simply means any vehicle on the roads, there is actually very minimal traffic here. Or more accurately, bad traffic i.e. gridlock etc. The roads in this region are pretty superb all things considering. Yes, we need to improve bike lanes, footpaths and maybe figure our ways to allow buses/the LRT to have signal priority so the buses can move around faster, but the traffic itself? North American regions of 620'000+ people would be envious to have the kind of smooth flowing roads we have here.

Also, yeah there are people out there complaining about bike lanes, but it's mostly out of touch boomers ranting on Facebook or Reddit about how it's a waste of tax dollars to spend money on them because...they don't bike themselves. They don't have the slightest clue what they're talking about and no planners in this region are taking their information from these people.
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Yeah, I think its a tell when Victoria is a bit busy for 20min at rush hour because of 100 Vic/Garment St. and suddenly it seems like a major stand out jam. Almost like a few more major thoroughfares could afford to share some right of way with other modes even...
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I am in agreement with Jeffster. I have worked in the GTA for 26 years, let me tell you, we are blessed in Waterloo Region. For those complaining, grow up and sample the world outside Waterloo Region.

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(01-17-2022, 07:57 PM)cherrypark Wrote: I commend you for having your network and contacts not include any form of social media (its not particularly constructive). I will note however you do have neighbours that disagree with bike infrastructure pretty enthusiastically...

I really don't like whiners. LOL. That, or I don't follow the right (wrong) people.

Our street got bike lanes, and I could literally take a bike straight to work and only have one block of concern. But I didn't hear any complaints from neighbours. But I see from your post that some people have very strong opinions on bike lanes, especially from the winter angle. And while I can't bike in the winter (or any damp, hot, weather, due to asthma), and I don't know how some do it, I have enough respect that it should be an option for anyone that wants to do it, 365 days of year, and it should be safe for them to do so.

My only wish is that everyone respected each other when it comes to their transportation.
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(01-17-2022, 10:55 AM)plam Wrote: The Canadian Census has some information from which you could probably derive a pretty good answer:

https://www12.statcan.gc.ca/census-recen...D=1&type=0

I want people to guess without having looked it up, so they can see how close their guess was to reality when the poll ends. :-)
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(01-17-2022, 03:12 PM)jeffster Wrote:
(01-17-2022, 10:31 AM)danbrotherston Wrote: What bugs me is when drivers believe that not only do they want to drive, but that their choice is the right and only choice and everyone else should do what they do.  And it's doubly frustrating because 99% of the time the things drivers complain about is caused by "everyone must drive" policies.


I don't know of any driver that thinks that way.

As for the second part (not bolded) I also don't believe that. Things drivers complain about -- length of commute (not because of traffic, but because of distance), being cut off, being whizzed by a vehicle, only to have it immediately stop in front of you to make a turn. Other grievances are people (be it cars, pedestrians, cyclists) not obeying traffic signals/signs, and jaywalkers. The one that bothers me is when cyclists come at you in the opposite direction -- WHEN THERE IS A FREAKING PROTECTED BIKE LANE! Holy crap. Queens BLVD between Belmont and Westheights is an example of this. You have protected bike lanes -- use the damn things.

I  have lost track of the times I have discussed biked lanes or transit with somebody (in person or online) and their argument against either mode is "But I need my car to get to work". And while their reason my be true for themselves (they need to haul tools, go to one or more different locations each day, etc…), it is clear that they cannot imagine anybody else being in a different situation. Even when you point out jobs like restaurant servers, retail, office workers, and so on who always work at the same place every day and do not need to bring much of anything with them, they still have difficulty understanding that a lot of people can feasibly bike or take transit to their work every day. I even had one person try to convince me that the majority of workers in K-W were blue-collar trades people who had to carry a large amunt of tools with them to multiple jobs every day around town. At best, if you finally get them to admit to the fact that bike or bus is feasible for many, they switch to "But why would you want to?" or various other things that really mean "But the car is the best way!"

So, yes, there are lots of drivers who think that way.
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(01-17-2022, 05:16 PM)jeffster Wrote: Kitchener-Cambridge-Waterloo doesn't have traffic. It really literally has no traffic. Ever, except the odd time that there is an accident on the Expressway that jams things up.

Now that's just silly talk. K-W may not have the congestion levels of Toronto, but that doesn't mean we have zero congestion.

Going from Country Hills, for example, to a downtown in the evening to a restaurant takes 10 minutes. But during rush hour the same trip to work takes 20 minutes because of the traffic congestion.

Laurelwood to DTK in the evening takes 15 minutes, 20 if you're unlucky. IN rush hour it takes 30 to 40 minutes.

Kitchener-Waterloo literally has traffic congestion.
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