King-Victoria Transit Hub

[ac3r]

I expect that their rationale is based on a combination of existing retail inside 1 Victoria and Pharmacy, and future retail next door (and at Station Park).

I would also hate to build a whole lot of retail space and then have it sit empty because there aren't enough retail customers. Until we have 2WAD GO service, the station will not be much of a destination.

If I remember right, their justification for it was that they did not want to get into managing commercial spaces (or "playing landlord" as someone put it). While there are a couple retail spaces across the street, it's still very limited. I believe all there is at 1 Victoria is a coffee shop.

Two way GO train service is projected to be operational by 2025. While I imagine that will be delayed as usual, I don't think the train station will be open by then either as it wouldn't make sense to rush this project until then. It'll probably be timed so that when improved train service is available, the train station will be completed. It would be a perfect place to have one or two shops once both GO, VIA, LRT, buses and taxis service it...even just a café and general store would serve passengers quite well.

[kps]

I noticed in one of the shots, there appears to be a pathway across the King St bridge.  Will this be a connection to s/b iON?  I just assumed when it was banished as being a train platform that it would mean it couldn't be a pedestrian corridor either.

As far as I know the crossing is still planned, and the plan is to have a trail to Stewart St to meet the trail on the other side of Park that connects to the IHT. The crossing is separate from the transit hub project, though, and I think it's Metrolinx's project rather than the Region's.

[Spokes]

I've got to guess the landlord issue is the primary one, but how do they not see the benefits??

[jwilliamson]

Don't they have a restaurant at the airport? Why is that OK but a restaurant at the train station isn't?

[timio]

You're not necessarily a captive audience at the train station - you can leave if you have enough time to get food. At the airport, you're stuck once you get through security.

[Coke6pk]

You're not necessarily a captive audience at the train station - you can leave if you have enough time to get food. At the airport, you're stuck once you get through security.

This doesn't change their "landlord" position.

People may be partially captive in the time between the arriving iON train and the departing GO Train.  Maybe going to 1 Victoria will make them miss the train, but grabbing a coffee in the station is ample.

If I am taking a VIA train now, I show up early so I don't miss the train.  A shop of two would help pass that time w/o leaving the facility.

Coke

[ac3r]

I don't even know what "playing landlord" entails anyway. Surely it's minimal work for the region and as a bonus they get to receive money from whatever business decided to open. Without any businesses at this train station, all we'll end up with is a glorified waiting hall that looks as sterile as an operating theatre. There'd be zero reason to be there for anything other than waiting for a bus/train and nobody wants to wait around in an empty train station longer than they need to. A café or resturaunt in this place would possibly have the benefit of being able to open early - The Round Table at 1 Victoria opens at 9 which is not very handy to commuters travelling out of the region.

Even Charles Terminal had Transfers Restaurant which was very popular for grabbing a bite of food while you wait for a bus and many people enjoyed it for its bar and open air patio (or at least I think it was licensed...I can't remember). They already know how to do this.

[danbrotherston]

I don't even know what "playing landlord" entails anyway. Surely it's minimal work for the region and as a bonus they get to receive money from whatever business decided to open. Without any businesses at this train station, all we'll end up with is a glorified waiting hall that looks as sterile as an operating theatre. There'd be zero reason to be there for anything other than waiting for a bus/train and nobody wants to wait around in an empty train station longer than they need to. A café or resturaunt in this place would possibly have the benefit of being able to open early - The Round Table at 1 Victoria opens at 9 which is not very handy to commuters travelling out of the region.

Even Charles Terminal had Transfers Restaurant which was very popular for grabbing a bite of food while you wait for a bus and many people enjoyed it for its bar and open air patio (or at least I think it was licensed...I can't remember). They already know how to do this.

I'm guessing it's one part political liability (something *could* go wrong, safer to do nothing) and one part "small government" nonsense....neo libs and neo cons don't think government should be in the business of x where x is whatever they don't want to do today.

[nms]

For a completely out of left field solution, why not use the empty space to build an observation tower a la the CN Tower, the Skylon Tower in Niagara Falls or the Calgary Tower? The CN Tower footprint looks to be about 50 meters to a side. I wonder how high it would have to be to beat the height of the Baden hill towers, that are the current highest point in the Region?

On the landlord issue:
1. The Restaurant Food terminals at the Airport are likely tendered bids for service rather than a dedicated restaurant space. I think that the current operator is connected to a local catering business.
2. The Region might be looking to avoid getting into long-term tenant issues if the managed to land a larger tenant. Did Toronto run into any problems when they got rid of the Harvey's in Union Station?

[ac3r]

For a completely out of left field solution, why not use the empty space to build an observation tower a la the CN Tower, the Skylon Tower in Niagara Falls or the Calgary Tower? The CN Tower footprint looks to be about 50 meters to a side. I wonder how high it would have to be to beat the height of the Baden hill towers, that are the current highest point in the Region?

Good luck funding that. They are selling the naming rights to this train station just to help get it built so I unfortunately don't see them building an observation tower although the views would be nice. Observation towers make sense in big cities but not so much in a region of our size...and even in big cities, nobody goes to them but silly tourists with money to waste. There isn't a whole lot to see either, just trees and buildings as far as the eye can see.

[danbrotherston]

For a completely out of left field solution, why not use the empty space to build an observation tower a la the CN Tower, the Skylon Tower in Niagara Falls or the Calgary Tower? The CN Tower footprint looks to be about 50 meters to a side. I wonder how high it would have to be to beat the height of the Baden hill towers, that are the current highest point in the Region?

Good luck funding that. They are selling the naming rights to this train station just to help get it built so I unfortunately don't see them building an observation tower although the views would be nice. Observation towers make sense in big cities but not so much in a region of our size...and even in big cities, nobody goes to them but silly tourists with money to waste. There isn't a whole lot to see either, just trees and buildings as far as the eye can see.

I still cannot comprehend the price. We're not building some massive grand development here.

[nms]

To put things into perspective (courtesy of the Bank of Canada Inflation calculator and ignoring the changes in construction pricing)

Skylon Tower $7,000,000 (1965) - $58.8 Million (2021); Population 1965: 57,400
Calgary Tower $3,500,000 (1968) - $26.2 Million (2021); Population 1968: 359,000
CN Tower $63,000,000 (1976) - $287 Million (2021), Population 1976: 2.8 Million

Given that the ION was pitched as something that a Region of our size needed since Calgary got their LRT when they were a similar size, the tower argument should have equal merit...

[Coke6pk]

Skylon was built in a city where views of the falls are what makes money, so owning land back a bit, an observation tower made sense. [There are two other towers in the same city - The Kodak tower (now part of the Casino Niagara) and the Panasonic / Minolta tower]

CN was built as a communications tower -- observation levels were just a bonus added.

I have no idea why Calgary was built... anyone know?

Coke

[welltoldtales]

Ah, the old Region doesn't want to be a landlord ideal. Considering what has happened with land in this region... imagine how much bank we would have right now.

[jeffster]

For a completely out of left field solution, why not use the empty space to build an observation tower a la the CN Tower, the Skylon Tower in Niagara Falls or the Calgary Tower? The CN Tower footprint looks to be about 50 meters to a side. I wonder how high it would have to be to beat the height of the Baden hill towers, that are the current highest point in the Region?

Are you talking about the Tower of Google that's being built close to the station? It won't be as tall as Baden Hill, but it will be about 950 high, or about 200 feet shorter than the observation deck at the CN Tower. They're working with Rogers an GO Transit on this one (The LED display will cycle between showing GO Transit, Rogers and Google). They're testing longer range 5G as well. The observation deck will be around 875 feet (the other 75 feet above is antenna). I hadn't heard about any restaurant in there tho, not an easy sell.