Grand River Transit

[ookpik]

Events don't often relate to general ridership, but they can be an introduction to the service. Many people drive everywhere, but in Ottawa, with the horrible traffic, they'll park at a park'n'ride and then ride the equivalent of our iXpress downtown to the show. There are buses as far as the eye can see, and for free, after the fireworks, and they're always a lot faster than spending an hour or more trying to get a car out of any walkable parking lot.

When you give people an access point to ION, whether they become a transit user, or buy their kid a GRT pass, or just understand the utility and experience a bit better, all have moved the dial in a positive direction.

I agree wholeheartedly with this view. However, I don't see why a single annual event is significant. As someone who tends to avoid malls because of the traffic and parking hassles, that the LRT termini are at malls is a big advantage. (I find this a bit humourous in light of the anti-LRT people who put it down as just a means to getting to malls...)

But what's at Columbia Lake that would influence me to use the LRT if only there was a stop nearby? People are much more likely to use the LRT to get to Waterloo Park or Victoria Park, never mind downtown Kitchener and uptown Waterloo or to visit someone at GR Hospital. So it seems to me that rather than concentrate on a single event we need to find a way to encourage people generally to use LRT/GRT when they'd otherwise drive to destinations near the LRT route.

As for free fares, one impediment to public transit use over driving/parking is that the cost is based on the number of people in the party. A family with 2 adults and several kids could easily spend $20 or more to use the LRT to go to a park or to visit someone. That's a disincentive compared to driving and parking, even if it's paid parking. Perhaps GRT should consider making weekends and holidays free. This would encourage more people to try the LRT (and GRT in general) and may convert some of them into regular paid passengers during the week. This should at least be considered during the first few months the LRT is in service.

[Viewfromthe42]

Events don't often relate to general ridership, but they can be an introduction to the service. Many people drive everywhere, but in Ottawa, with the horrible traffic, they'll park at a park'n'ride and then ride the equivalent of our iXpress downtown to the show. There are buses as far as the eye can see, and for free, after the fireworks, and they're always a lot faster than spending an hour or more trying to get a car out of any walkable parking lot.

When you give people an access point to ION, whether they become a transit user, or buy their kid a GRT pass, or just understand the utility and experience a bit better, all have moved the dial in a positive direction.

I agree wholeheartedly with this view. However, I don't see why a single annual event is significant. As someone who tends to avoid malls because of the traffic and parking hassles, that the LRT termini are at malls is a big advantage. (I find this a bit humourous in light of the anti-LRT people who put it down as just a means to getting to malls...)

But what's at Columbia Lake that would influence me to use the LRT if only there was a stop nearby? People are much more likely to use the LRT to get to Waterloo Park or Victoria Park, never mind downtown Kitchener and uptown Waterloo or to visit someone at GR Hospital. So it seems to me that rather than concentrate on a single event we need to find a way to encourage people generally to use LRT/GRT when they'd otherwise drive to destinations near the LRT route.

As for free fares, one impediment to public transit use over driving/parking is that the cost is based on the number of people in the party. A family with 2 adults and several kids could easily spend $20 or more to use the LRT to go to a park or to visit someone. That's a disincentive compared to driving and parking, even if it's paid parking. Perhaps GRT should consider making weekends and holidays free. This would encourage more people to try the LRT (and GRT in general) and may convert some of them into regular paid passengers during the week. This should at least be considered during the first few months the LRT is in service.

You try to incentivize use in many ways. One way is by things like the late night loop, primarily for students. Even as they are already heavy users of transit, some who still are not will see a sober and cheap ride home as a good value proposition.

Others, who could hardly be pulled out of their cars, might need more specialized moments to motivate, and an hour-plus to escape a parking lot might be one of them.

I agree wholeheartedly with respect to the cost of bringing a family. It makes little sense that we say we want to get closer to the TTC in terms of cost recovery, but don't follow one of their best examples of accessibility and ridership building: that the day pass on weekends and holidays is good for almost any family size (up to two adults and four kids I think?). That the day pass is so hard for people to acquire, and only works on sunday, is a good disincentive.

[chutten]

That being said, running the numbers shows that cars are just too good in the Region at the moment to give up. Copious usually-free parking, cross-town traffic that is frustrating only at peak... if you already own a car, you aren't likely to use ION except for novelty's sake.

We have two cars, and yet we'll use ION.  We do live downtown, though, which makes a difference.

But don't you think eliminating the fares altogether would change that equation in a big way?

I don't have numbers for others, but here are mine.

We own one car. Simply owning it costs money (licensing, registration, insurance, and if you want to get picky, depreciation and/or amortized purchase price over lifetime number of trips).

So free transit fares still cost me via a car-shaped hole in my garage that eats money.

My wife's work has free parking, so the only cost of her taking it to work is gas (plus wear, plus depreciation). Specifically, her 4.3km commute costs less than 45 cents over the cost of just leaving the car in the garage.

My work has parking at $130/month and is 7km away. The cost of me taking the car to work and back would be about $6 including gas.

However, if you look at it from the point of view of someone thinking about using transit _or_ buying a car, then it becomes a different thing.

Even a $5k beater given five hundred bucks in maintenance over its 3-year career will cost you... $5500 / 150 weeks / 5 days = $7.33 price per day to own, amortized. Plus insurance, registration, licensing, driveclean... let's ballpark and round up to $10 a day.

Then you add in the intangibles: driving in traffic, finding room for it at home, finding parking for it at work... How annoying it is to drive.

It still might not add up to enough to convince someone to pay $6 a day on GRT tickets, and to sit on the bus or wait in the rain for the better part of an hour. But, you're right, it might add up to enough to convince someone to not pay for GRT tickets.

Which is why I see LRT and the improved transit I'm desperately wishing will result as a gamechanger for someone considering buying a car, not for people who already own them.

And which is why, instead of buying a second car, I bus and grumble. Or bike, which takes less than half(!) as long.

[Markster]

Re: Canada Day at Columbia Lake

Can we organize a lobby effort to get them to keep Columbia open for GRT buses during the event?
As ridiculous as driving out of Columbia Lake after the fireworks is, the bus detours mean that many of the bus options suck as well.

[MidTowner]

From the Record: Cambridge express attracting riders

Apparently the 200 between Fairview and Cambridge has about 2400 riders a day, versus 2140 for the 204.

It's too soon to tell, but I'm impressed that the 204 is doing so well so soon. Given that, I bet ten minute headways (like the 200) would attract some serious ridership.

[timio]

Re: Canada Day at Columbia Lake

Can we organize a lobby effort to get them to keep Columbia open for GRT buses during the event?
As ridiculous as driving out of Columbia Lake after the fireworks is, the bus detours mean that many of the bus options suck as well.

There are a large number of spectators that set up shop in the middle of the road to watch the fireworks. I don't think they'd appreciate having to find someplace else to watch. Any number of reasons could cause them to be there, including accessibility concerns, toting a wagonful of kids, unstable on the grass and hills north of Columbia, etc.

[mpd618]

There are a large number of spectators that set up shop in the middle of the road to watch the fireworks.  I don't think they'd appreciate having to find someplace else to watch.  Any number of reasons could cause them to be there, including accessibility concerns, toting a wagonful of kids, unstable on the grass and hills north of Columbia, etc.

Easy solution: use the south side of Columbia Street for two-way bus traffic, keep the north one open for people.

[Viewfromthe42]

Doing that would be very easy where there's the grass median. You'd have to channel people across at a set few locations, so that you could stop them from crossing whenever buses were coming.

[chutten]

Doing that would be very easy where there's the grass median. You'd have to channel people across at a set few locations, so that you could stop them from crossing whenever buses were coming.

Depending on the speed the buses hope to attain, I wouldn't worry about it. If the buses crawl along, there's plenty of time for people to get out of the way. See a bus? Don't be in front of it.

[Markster]

Buses restricted to 20km/h would still be much faster and better than if they were on detour!

[KevinL]

Here's a proposal: have two runs of shuttle buses available through the day. One runs from R+T Park station to the Hagey/Tompa roundabout; the other circles Ring Road, connecting the University station with a stop near Village 1. That should reduce the walk to the LRT while keeping buses off Columbia.

[chutten]

The day has finally come!

This is a live link to current GRT bus location information. Cached files are updated by the system on the order of every 30 seconds.  

http://www.regionofwaterloo.ca/en/region...ataset.asp

[MidTowner]

From the Record: Cambridge express attracting riders

Apparently the 200 between Fairview and Cambridge has about 2400 riders a day, versus 2140 for the 204.

It's too soon to tell, but I'm impressed that the 204 is doing so well so soon. Given that, I bet ten minute headways (like the 200) would attract some serious ridership.

A comment on that article wonders what the ridership on the 200 in Cambridge used to be, and I wonder the same: that would be the really useful thing to know, whether the rebranding and infrastructure enhancements have led to increased ridership.

GRT doesn't tend to publish ridership by line, does it?

[mpd618]

GRT doesn't tend to publish ridership by line, does it?

No, but they should. Let your regional councillor know you think so.

[MidTowner]

Sure. You do the same. You're right that they ought to. The only time I hear about ridership figures, it's curated by some writer or other at the Record.