Grand River Transit

[Bytor]

After my dealing with GRT yesterday, I would hazard a guess they would say "finders keepers, loosers weepers"....

My 14 yr old daughter went to get on the bus yesterday after school, she tapped her card and it didn't have enough money for fare. She calls me and I immediately added more money.  I also added the auto load feature so this doesn't happen again.  I text her and tell her to jump on the next bus. She does and it didn't work.  My daughter is a rule follower so she gets off again and calls me crying.  I sent her a screen shot of the paid receipt for the fare, I explained to her to try the next bus and tell the driver her dad added money and here is the receipt for it. In the mean time, I will call Customer Service.  What a joke that was.  I explained the situation, they said oh, it takes 24 to 48 hours to load onto the card, that's just the way the system is.  I explained that "The System" had no problem taking my money from Visa immediately, so there fore I should be able to utilize a service for which I have paid.  She says, sorry, it doesn't work like that.  I say what is the work around. She says nothing.  I explain that I work out of town, my wife works with patients and cant just get up and leave so we need to figure something out.  I ask for a supervisor, she says no supervisor, I ask for the manger, she says no manager. I say, how many people working around you right now (3:15pm on a Wed), She say approx 8. I say so 8 employees working in a government office and no supervision for accountability and safety of the regions employees.... Silence. I say or do you mean the manager and the supervisor went out for a Christmas lunch, or they are both doing personal business on company time ? again silence. I ask for the director of the area, she say she doesn't know who it is.  I say fine. Call your dispatch and tell them there will be a cute 14 year old girl at the particular stop and time trying to get on the bus, please tell the driver to let her on as a courtesy.  She says no I cant do that.  Just then my daughter texted me to say that she got on the bus. She did what I asked her too and the driver was super kind and polite and said absolutely you can ride....  So at least the boots on the ground people are able to make reasonable decisions, but the people in "Customer Service" not so much... but what do you want when they have absentee leaders...
Sorry,  but that was my first experience with GRT management and it was horrible.. "That's the way the system works"... well your system is fucked. In todays technology everything up dates as soon old visa takes the charge...  How about looking into new technology, pair with GO Transit passes. Create an app that uploads immediately and you just tap your phone... Too many people just doing the same old the same old way. I bet the people in Customer Service don't even use transit......then there is that !!!!

So, while I understand your frustration, this has been explained many times by GRT and by people on many social media platforms, including WRC.

The buses do not have internet connections. How do you expect the loading to go from you using the website and end up at the bus?

When a  bus gets back to the barn at the end of the day, the mechanic giving it the once over sets the farebox to a WiFi AP at the barn. At that point in time it uploads a record of all transactions it did, and downloads a bundle of updates, such as you adding funds to your daughter's card.

The next day when the bus is out on the road and your daughter taps on, the farebox will apply the update to her card and set a flag. The flag is for if your daughter tapos on a second bus so that farebox can see the updated has already been apply and doesn't erroneously add the stored value a second time.

From then on, your daughter can tap her card and have deductions made like normal.

Of course, this obviously only works if you go to the website and add the funds before the bus gets back to the barn.

If you added the funds in the afternoon, but the bus she tries to tap on the next day had been returned to the barn at noon, then it will not have the update for her card. It would need to go back to the barn on more time to get the updates.

That's why GRT says 24 to 48 hours.

It is a technical limitation you cannot solve without having internet connections on the buses and the fareboxes updating constantly. Plus, because of the batch nature of financial processes, even with an internet connection out on the road, the update needsto be formatted and bunded into an update and sent to the farebox. So even then it wouldn't be available right away.

Customer Service can't do bugger all about this, and it is unfair of you to be angry at them for it. YTA, full stop, for that behaviour.

They were exactly right to tell you only "that's how it works" and no manager or supervisor would have been able to do a damn thing about it for you. Did you expect them to reach out with a magic wand and enchant either your daughter's card with the stored value, or the farebox of the next bus with the update for it?

[taylortbb]

Whenever the contract ends with this payment provider we need to move Presto...

That would mean ripping out the fareboxes and kiosks EVREYWHERE in order to install PRESTO-specific hardware.

Would it though? Or would it just require new software and decals? You point out yourself that Scheidt & Bachmann is a major supplier to Presto, many of the Presto machines are the exact same model that EasyGo uses. I'd expect it's just software + decal differences, as many different fare card systems use Scheidt & Bachmann hardware. I'd be very surprised if Presto got custom hardware.

I think the big issue would be that Presto doesn't currently support the combo cash fare box + card reader that we use on the buses. But Metrolinx, aka the Ontario government, owns Presto. Support can be added if the desire is there.

[tomh009]

That would mean ripping out the fareboxes and kiosks EVREYWHERE in order to install PRESTO-specific hardware.

Would it though? Or would it just require new software and decals? You point out yourself that Scheidt & Bachmann is a major supplier to Presto, many of the Presto machines are the exact same model that EasyGo uses. I'd expect it's just software + decal differences, as many different fare card systems use Scheidt & Bachmann hardware. I'd be very surprised if Presto got custom hardware.

Most likely standard hardware with a custom ID in the firmware, which Presto can use to ensure that all hardware was purchased through them. Have seen this scenario many times (in a different industry).

I think the big issue would be that Presto doesn't currently support the combo cash fare box + card reader that we use on the buses. But Metrolinx, aka the Ontario government, owns Presto. Support can be added if the desire is there.

Highlighted the key words. When the region asked for bids, Presto was not interested. At all.

[ijmorlan]

When a  bus gets back to the barn at the end of the day, the mechanic giving it the once over sets the farebox to a WiFi AP at the barn. At that point in time it uploads a record of all transactions it did, and downloads a bundle of updates, such as you adding funds to your daughter's card.

Manually? Can’t it just connect once it receives the WiFi signal? For that matter, couldn’t they install their WiFi network at a few major transfer points and terminals and have most buses pick up updates sooner than end-of-day?

[ac3r]

That would mean ripping out the fareboxes and kiosks EVREYWHERE in order to install PRESTO-specific hardware.

I'll single handedly rip out all of our fare boxes myself if the region agreed to switch to Presto. I bet a lot would be more than happy to lend a hand.

There is absolutely no reason to use our crap system, although I know we're stuck with it. But...Presto just works. There's a reason why it has been adopted by transit agencies servicing millions upon millions upon millions of people in our nations most important cities and it isn't because anyone is putting a gun to the heads of people in oh...Brampton, Ottawa, Toronto, Durham, Mississauga, Hamilton, York and Oakville. They went with it because it makes sense to do so. As said, it just works. It has a lot of good features. It is accepted in basically every important urban centre in Ontario - sans ours, of course.

But in the usual Region of Waterloo fashion: we just had to do it our way. Just like not shovelling sidewalks fronting private residential/commercial/etc businesses is not good. Or how collecting the recyclables of like 630'000 people is best done by having them sort it all into tiny containers rather than just a huge ass wheelie bin that holds a lot of stuff and move on.

[Bytor]

I think the big issue would be that Presto doesn't currently support the combo cash fare box + card reader that we use on the buses. But Metrolinx, aka the Ontario government, owns Presto. Support can be added if the desire is there.

And there's the rub. It isn't. It wasn't there to add the needed fare products when we were looking at vendors, so why would it be there now?

I have zero faith in PRESTO/Accenture.

[Bytor]

But...Presto just works.

No, it doesn't. Every single transit system that has installed PRESTO has had significant problems with it far worse than we have had with EasyGO.

I don't think locals understand that.

Are you angry at EasyGO now? Prepare to be abso-fucking-lutely raging if we were to switch to PRESTO.

Why do you think it took the TTC a decade to install and test it, starting from 2009, with multiple halts? The original contract signing in 2012 was supposed to have PREST available across the board on the TTC by 2016, but that did not happen until after 2019 because of all the problems.

https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/ttc-bla...ef95a.html

https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/ttc-sus...559ec.html

https://www.toronto.com/news/metrolinxs-...1d23b.html

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/p...-1.3795660

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/tor...e31932882/

https://torontoobserver.ca/2019/11/27/pr...g-the-ttc/

https://stevemunro.ca/2019/11/03/toronto...-problems/

There's a reason why it has been adopted by transit agencies servicing millions upon millions upon millions of people in our nations most important cities and it isn't because anyone is putting a gun to the heads of people in oh...Brampton, Ottawa, Toronto, Durham, Mississauga, Hamilton, York and Oakville.

It wasn't so simple for YRT. https://www.york.ca/media/54436/download It literally took years to get the integration with TTC corrected instead of double charging people. PRESTO fare integration across the GTA/905 transit agencies still isn't here yet.

BTW, part of the gas tax transfer payments from 2006 through 2008 were contingent on adopting Presto, AFAIK.

[bravado]

And yet it works today for millions of people and the status quo here doesn’t…

[Bytor]

And yet it works today for millions of people and the status quo here doesn’t…

Presto is still having recurring issues.

[dtkvictim]

So, while I understand your frustration, this has been explained many times by GRT and by people on many social media platforms, including WRC.

The buses do not have internet connections. How do you expect the loading to go from you using the website and end up at the bus?

When a  bus gets back to the barn at the end of the day, the mechanic giving it the once over sets the farebox to a WiFi AP at the barn. At that point in time it uploads a record of all transactions it did, and downloads a bundle of updates, such as you adding funds to your daughter's card.

The next day when the bus is out on the road and your daughter taps on, the farebox will apply the update to her card and set a flag. The flag is for if your daughter tapos on a second bus so that farebox can see the updated has already been apply and doesn't erroneously add the stored value a second time.

From then on, your daughter can tap her card and have deductions made like normal.

Of course, this obviously only works if you go to the website and add the funds before the bus gets back to the barn.

If you added the funds in the afternoon, but the bus she tries to tap on the next day had been returned to the barn at noon, then it will not have the update for her card. It would need to go back to the barn on more time to get the updates.

That's why GRT says 24 to 48 hours.

It is a technical limitation you cannot solve without having internet connections on the buses and the fareboxes updating constantly. Plus, because of the batch nature of financial processes, even with an internet connection out on the road, the update needsto be formatted and bunded into an update and sent to the farebox. So even then it wouldn't be available right away.

Customer Service can't do bugger all about this, and it is unfair of you to be angry at them for it. YTA, full stop, for that behaviour.

They were exactly right to tell you only "that's how it works" and no manager or supervisor would have been able to do a damn thing about it for you. Did you expect them to reach out with a magic wand and enchant either your daughter's card with the stored value, or the farebox of the next bus with the update for it?

I'm going to hazard a guess that you work in some sort of engineering related profession, and not anything product or customer related, because this post sounds like how the majority of my coworkers think. Yes, we understand how it works and why it works that way (but the general public at larger never will). Yes, once you understand there is a potential 48 hour delay it's not terribly stifling and can be worked around.

But for at least the last decade people think of a "payment cards" of any kind as an instantaneous and usable anywhere. I'd wager over 80% of the population doesn't know and doesn't care to know that payment terminals in shops are internet connected, and so the thought that payment terminals on busses aren't connected but would need to be isn't a logical train of thought for them. Today it's even expected for mobile/popup shops, food trucks, etc. to accept credit and debit payments backed by mobile connections, and most cash only places obviously take a hit.

If you build a product that goes against consumer expectations for technical reasons, that's fine, but you need to be sympathetic to the position you've put your customer in. Have some humility and shame, not anger towards the confused customer (and customer service should reflect that, short of accepting abuse whether verbal or of the system).

And yet it works today for millions of people and the status quo here doesn’t…

Well, we don't have millions of people here so you aren't wrong.

But I don't agree that the status quo here (EasyGO) isn't working. It would be nice to have the up to 48 hour delay go away and gain credit card payments, but does that really mean the system isn't working? The only major problem I've experienced was the absolute garbage state that the ION fare machines launched in, but I've been using them lately and they actually seem to work quite well now.

The only complaints are ever see are on this forums, specifically about the delay. Am I missing some major problem everyone is dealing with?

[danbrotherston]

So, while I understand your frustration, this has been explained many times by GRT and by people on many social media platforms, including WRC.

The buses do not have internet connections. How do you expect the loading to go from you using the website and end up at the bus?

When a  bus gets back to the barn at the end of the day, the mechanic giving it the once over sets the farebox to a WiFi AP at the barn. At that point in time it uploads a record of all transactions it did, and downloads a bundle of updates, such as you adding funds to your daughter's card.

The next day when the bus is out on the road and your daughter taps on, the farebox will apply the update to her card and set a flag. The flag is for if your daughter tapos on a second bus so that farebox can see the updated has already been apply and doesn't erroneously add the stored value a second time.

From then on, your daughter can tap her card and have deductions made like normal.

Of course, this obviously only works if you go to the website and add the funds before the bus gets back to the barn.

If you added the funds in the afternoon, but the bus she tries to tap on the next day had been returned to the barn at noon, then it will not have the update for her card. It would need to go back to the barn on more time to get the updates.

That's why GRT says 24 to 48 hours.

It is a technical limitation you cannot solve without having internet connections on the buses and the fareboxes updating constantly. Plus, because of the batch nature of financial processes, even with an internet connection out on the road, the update needsto be formatted and bunded into an update and sent to the farebox. So even then it wouldn't be available right away.

Customer Service can't do bugger all about this, and it is unfair of you to be angry at them for it. YTA, full stop, for that behaviour.

They were exactly right to tell you only "that's how it works" and no manager or supervisor would have been able to do a damn thing about it for you. Did you expect them to reach out with a magic wand and enchant either your daughter's card with the stored value, or the farebox of the next bus with the update for it?

I'm going to hazard a guess that you work in some sort of engineering related profession, and not anything product or customer related, because this post sounds like how the majority of my coworkers think. Yes, we understand how it works and why it works that way (but the general public at larger never will). Yes, once you understand there is a potential 48 hour delay it's not terribly stifling and can be worked around.

But for at least the last decade people think of a "payment cards" of any kind as an instantaneous and usable anywhere. I'd wager over 80% of the population doesn't know and doesn't care to know that payment terminals in shops are internet connected, and so the thought that payment terminals on busses aren't connected but would need to be isn't a logical train of thought for them. Today it's even expected for mobile/popup shops, food trucks, etc. to accept credit and debit payments backed by mobile connections, and most cash only places obviously take a hit.

If you build a product that goes against consumer expectations for technical reasons, that's fine, but you need to be sympathetic to the position you've put your customer in. Have some humility and shame, not anger towards the confused customer (and customer service should reflect that, short of accepting abuse whether verbal or of the system).

You're right but you're wrong. Yes, there are certain expectations, but bravado is right the limitations of our payment card here is EXTREMELY well advertised especially in this forum. It's totally possible to forget it (especially because it is inconsistent--going to a machine is instantaneous). And being angry at customer service is entirely unwarranted.

And yet it works today for millions of people and the status quo here doesn’t…

Well, we don't have millions of people here so you aren't wrong.

But I don't agree that the status quo here (EasyGO) isn't working. It would be nice to have the up to 48 hour delay go away and gain credit card payments, but does that really mean the system isn't working? The only major problem I've experienced was the absolute garbage state that the ION fare machines launched in, but I've been using them lately and they actually seem to work quite well now.

The only complaints are ever see are on this forums, specifically about the delay. Am I missing some major problem everyone is dealing with?

Edit: I should clarify, I replied to to dtkvictim because I wanted to include the earlier comment, but this following is a broad reply generally and not directed at any one specific person.

This part I do not get. There are MANY problems with EasyGO--even if we leave aside the IMMENSE teething problems it had (remember when they wiped their entire database and started again? FFS!), and leave aside that it was late to deploy, and even after they were deployed the equipment broke constantly.

They DO NOT work well now. The 24-48 hour delay is ONE problem. I also was unable to pay for the train, because for some reason the fare machine will not accept my TD debit card, nor my TD Visa, nor my Wise Visa, nor my ING (Dutch) Visa. I have FOUR payment cards and not one would work...what kind of bullshit is that. I was able to use three of the cards in every previous part of my trip including boarding multiple transit systems in the GTA.

And of course, Presto has already moved onto supporting visa and debit cards directly for boarding, something that is, if not world leading, is at least a stand out feature...and something that EasyGO doesn't even have on the radar (I'd be shocked if council even knows it's a thing...since I doubt any of them are remotely interested in transit), and who the fuck knows how much it will cost us to pay our incredibly incompetent contractor to build.

Honestly, I don't understand the hatred of presto. Yes, they didn't bid, because that's not what they do. If we were going to choose presto it wouldn't have been through the bidding process. I don't know why people here find that so inconceivable. A dozen other transit agencies have done so, why the fuck are we so special?! This is nothing more than a shitty excuse for not choosing presto.

By the way, accepting cash fares and transit passes isn't hard. London (who also chose to implement their own stupidly incompatible, but yet exactly the same transit fare card) accepts both cards and cash (and tickets too for that matter). They do it by having two boxes on the bus...it isn't complicated.

And of course, now if you travel to Toronto, you need two separate transit cards with two separate stored dollar value accounts...how much bullshit is that.

I know presto had issues before...SO DID EASYGO!...in both cases those issues are largely solved, but while presto now works mostly smoothly, supports some advanced features, and is a path forward towards greater integration and modernization of fare payment in Ontario, but we're stuck with our shitty and expensive custom solution, that isolates us from Toronto, and will cost us a fortune to custom implement anything that presto already has.

All because presto wouldn't play by our special rules and bid in the process that we (and we alone) decided was the ONLY way to select a fare payment processor. Why anyone here (hell anyone outside the region's bureaucracy) uses this bullshit justification...I will never know.

It boggles my mind that there are still people who think Presto would be a bad thing. For god sakes, I cannot believe you are making me agree with ac3r. I certainly don't think we're ever going to switch...GRT is probably the reason I am going to have to keep carrying cash when I travel...

[Acitta]

Well, once upon a time, you had to carry tickets for the GRT and tokens for the TTC, not to mention Greyhound or any other transit system you might have to use. I don't find it difficult to carry two transit cards. I bought a two-card wallet just for that purpose. In a world where so many people are dealing with life and death problems, having to have two transit cards seems like a rather trivial problem.

And of course, now if you travel to Toronto, you need two separate transit cards with two separate stored dollar value accounts...how much bullshit is that.

I know presto had issues before...SO DID EASYGO!...in both cases those issues are largely solved, but while presto now works mostly smoothly, supports some advanced features, and is a path forward towards greater integration and modernization of fare payment in Ontario, but we're stuck with our shitty and expensive custom solution, that isolates us from Toronto, and will cost us a fortune to custom implement anything that presto already has.

All because presto wouldn't play by our special rules and bid in the process that we (and we alone) decided was the ONLY way to select a fare payment processor. Why anyone here (hell anyone outside the region's bureaucracy) uses this bullshit justification...I will never know.

It boggles my mind that there are still people who think Presto would be a bad thing. For god sakes, I cannot believe you are making me agree with ac3r. I certainly don't think we're ever going to switch...GRT is probably the reason I am going to have to keep carrying cash when I travel...

And of course, now if you travel to Toronto, you need two separate transit cards with two separate stored dollar value accounts...how much bullshit is that.

I know presto had issues before...SO DID EASYGO!...in both cases those issues are largely solved, but while presto now works mostly smoothly, supports some advanced features, and is a path forward towards greater integration and modernization of fare payment in Ontario, but we're stuck with our shitty and expensive custom solution, that isolates us from Toronto, and will cost us a fortune to custom implement anything that presto already has.

All because presto wouldn't play by our special rules and bid in the process that we (and we alone) decided was the ONLY way to select a fare payment processor. Why anyone here (hell anyone outside the region's bureaucracy) uses this bullshit justification...I will never know.

It boggles my mind that there are still people who think Presto would be a bad thing. For god sakes, I cannot believe you are making me agree with ac3r. I certainly don't think we're ever going to switch...GRT is probably the reason I am going to have to keep carrying cash when I travel...

And of course, now if you travel to Toronto, you need two separate transit cards with two separate stored dollar value accounts...how much bullshit is that.

I know presto had issues before...SO DID EASYGO!...in both cases those issues are largely solved, but while presto now works mostly smoothly, supports some advanced features, and is a path forward towards greater integration and modernization of fare payment in Ontario, but we're stuck with our shitty and expensive custom solution, that isolates us from Toronto, and will cost us a fortune to custom implement anything that presto already has.

All because presto wouldn't play by our special rules and bid in the process that we (and we alone) decided was the ONLY way to select a fare payment processor. Why anyone here (hell anyone outside the region's bureaucracy) uses this bullshit justification...I will never know.

It boggles my mind that there are still people who think Presto would be a bad thing. For god sakes, I cannot believe you are making me agree with ac3r. I certainly don't think we're ever going to switch...GRT is probably the reason I am going to have to keep carrying cash when I travel...

And of course, now if you travel to Toronto, you need two separate transit cards with two separate stored dollar value accounts...how much bullshit is that.

I

And of course, now if you travel to Toronto, you need two separate transit cards with two separate stored dollar value accounts...how much bullshit is that.

I know presto had issues before...SO DID EASYGO!...in both cases those issues are largely solved, but while presto now works mostly smoothly, supports some advanced features, and is a path forward towards greater integration and modernization of fare payment in Ontario, but we're stuck with our shitty and expensive custom solution, that isolates us from Toronto, and will cost us a fortune to custom implement anything that presto already has.

All because presto wouldn't play by our special rules and bid in the process that we (and we alone) decided was the ONLY way to select a fare payment processor. Why anyone here (hell anyone outside the region's bureaucracy) uses this bullshit justification...I will never know.

It boggles my mind that there are still people who think Presto would be a bad thing. For god sakes, I cannot believe you are making me agree with ac3r. I certainly don't think we're ever going to switch...GRT is probably the reason I am going to have to keep carrying cash when I travel...

And of course, now if you travel to Toronto, you need two separate transit cards with two separate stored dollar value accounts...how much bullshit is that.

I know presto had issues before...SO DID EASYGO!...in both cases those issues are largely solved, but while presto now works mostly smoothly, supports some advanced features, and is a path forward towards greater integration and modernization of fare payment in Ontario, but we're stuck with our shitty and expensive custom solution, that isolates us from Toronto, and will cost us a fortune to custom implement anything that presto already has.

All because presto wouldn't play by our special rules and bid in the process that we (and we alone) decided was the ONLY way to select a fare payment processor. Why anyone here (hell anyone outside the region's bureaucracy) uses this bullshit justification...I will never know.

It boggles my mind that there are still people who think Presto would be a bad thing. For god sakes, I cannot believe you are making me agree with ac3r. I certainly don't think we're ever going to switch...GRT is probably the reason I am going to have to keep carrying cash when I travel...

And of course, now if you travel to Toronto, you need two separate transit cards with two separate stored dollar value accounts...how much bullshit is that.

I know presto had issues before...SO DID EASYGO!...in both cases those issues are largely solved, but while presto now works mostly smoothly, supports some advanced features, and is a path forward towards greater integration and modernization of fare payment in Ontario, but we're stuck with our shitty and expensive custom solution, that isolates us from Toronto, and will cost us a fortune to custom implement anything that presto already has.

All because presto wouldn't play by our special rules and bid in the process that we (and we alone) decided was the ONLY way to select a fare payment processor. Why anyone here (hell anyone outside the region's bureaucracy) uses this bullshit justification...I will never know.

It boggles my mind that there are still people who think Presto would be a bad thing. For god sakes, I cannot believe you are making me agree with ac3r. I certainly don't think we're ever going to switch...GRT is probably the reason I am going to have to keep carrying cash when I travel...

[bravado]

But for at least the last decade people think of a "payment cards" of any kind as an instantaneous and usable anywhere. I'd wager over 80% of the population doesn't know and doesn't care to know that payment terminals in shops are internet connected, and so the thought that payment terminals on busses aren't connected but would need to be isn't a logical train of thought for them. Today it's even expected for mobile/popup shops, food trucks, etc. to accept credit and debit payments backed by mobile connections, and most cash only places obviously take a hit.

If you build a product that goes against consumer expectations for technical reasons, that's fine, but you need to be sympathetic to the position you've put your customer in. Have some humility and shame, not anger towards the confused customer (and customer service should reflect that, short of accepting abuse whether verbal or of the system).

The point I was trying to make with a short pithy comment is that we deserve services that work together. A transit pass that adds speedbumps and arbitrary limitations and doesn't work with neighbours just isn't a compelling product. A functioning transit pass lets you use all transit whenever and wherever you want, but little municipal fiefdoms and small-mindedness have very different ideas of what they think a good system is. The "customer" actually is always right, regardless of how hard it is to set up a payment system or deploy it...

When I spent $ on transit, I don't care which government is getting my money and which borders I am crossing - I want that money to work on all transit for my benefit as a customer. Anything else is a pointless inconvenience. A GRT manager or councillor that picks our own homegrown solution is deliberately making their users' experience worse, because the customer experience isn't actually something that's high on their list of priorities.

[danbrotherston]

Well, once upon a time, you had to carry tickets for the GRT and tokens for the TTC, not to mention Greyhound or any other transit system you might have to use. I don't find it difficult to carry two transit cards. I bought a two-card wallet just for that purpose. In a world where so many people are dealing with life and death problems, having to have two transit cards seems like a rather trivial problem.

Yes, we have made constant improvements to the ease of use of transit...that's a good thing...but the fact that it was harder before is not a reason that we shouldn't make it easier than it is now.

And that's a really weak argument...the existence of serious problems does not mean our problems don't matter. It wasn't trivial to me when I was unable to get on the train for an hour getting to Kitchener, or when Rainrider's daughter was unable to get on her bus to work.

If there was a GOOD reason not to use presto...if our system was better in some way, then you could say "well, it's worth the trade off carrying two cards, and putting up with some difficulties"...but it isn't. Our system, isn't good, on it's best days it's merely equal to presto, and it's only unique feature is we get to be a special flower with our own farecard. But those days are well in the past, now it is equal or worse in every way, and it will cost us a fortune to meet (and keep meeting) presto's featureset.

So we have an inferior system, that costs us more, and in return we get nothing but our (or at least some bureaucrat's) ego stroked.

Anyway, I can't help but think that there was more to your comment, based on how my reply was broken up in your reply, but I don't see any text.

[ac3r]

Imagine if Costco stores in Toronto only took MBNA Mastercard. The Kitchener one only took Visa Debit. Maybe LCBOs in Burlington only took brim Mastercard but the ones in Waterloo took Scotiabank Visa. Canadian Tire only took BMO Visa...IKEA only took cash...McDonalds made you use American Express etc. You'd have to carry around a fat stack of plastic cards, cash and coins anywhere you went because you'd be stuck relying on all these different payment methods. It would be a huge pain in the ass. The same would be true if instead of Presto, each region relied on their own crappy card like we do so going seamlessly from Waterloo Region to Ottawa would be a bit of a headache. Thankfully, just like payment methods, most of these important regions have simplified and provided an acceptable quality product to their consumers in the form of Presto with the exception of this region.