Charles St GRT terminal redevelopment

[SF22]

Thanks for the link, I've completed it as well! I don't envy the region trying to figure out what to do with this site. I imagine they are getting a ton of suggestions/demands and there's no way they'll make everyone happy.

Personally, I have requested that, whatever they decide to build, they ensure that there is not a single surface parking space on the property. If we have all this fuss about what to do with the space and then they give us a parking lot on 20% of the lot, I will be deeply unhappy.

[Bytor]

I did some research on the sizes and shapes of relatively modern auditoriums and arenas across Canada

An arena the size and shape of Canada Life Centre in Winnipeg (15k+ seats) would fit on the 44 Gaukel lot plus a little bit of the old bus terminal lot with space for both a decent-sized community centre and a building of restaurants and bars facing the area across a public square.

TBH, that restaurant building is nearly double the depth it needs to be, which would make the public square even larger. I imagine something like Waterloo Public Square, with enough area to fence in patio space for the bars and restaurants. they'd be really popular from Spring to Fall on event afternoons and evenings.

[Joedelay Highhoe]

Could we build a giant phallic tower with an observation deck, glass floor and rotating restaurant? Might attract some people downtown and spice up our skyline.

[bravado]

Or we could just avoid the shiny new thing and make the bones of downtown better, causing more developments to start, which increases the tax base, which lets you make it even better etc

[ac3r]

No we need a 500 billion dollar sports stadium to host children league hockey games and knitting conventions! >:-(

[Bytor]

Or we could just avoid the shiny new thing and make the bones of downtown better, causing more developments to start, which increases the tax base, which lets you make it even better etc

I would say that a good concert& sports venue is one of those "bones" that needs to be addressed. Just look at how many bands pass us by because the Aud is either not big enough or does not have modern rigging. and how much more popular with the Kitchener Rangers be with a 15,000-seat arena instead of one not even half that size?

[ijmorlan]

Or we could just avoid the shiny new thing and make the bones of downtown better, causing more developments to start, which increases the tax base, which lets you make it even better etc

I would say that a good concert& sports venue is one of those "bones" that needs to be addressed. Just look at how many bands pass us by because the Aud is either not big enough or does not have modern rigging. and how much more popular with the Kitchener Rangers be with a 15,000-seat arena instead of one not even half that size?

Why would the Rangers be more popular with a larger arena?

(unless the current one regularly sells out with high ticket prices, in which case I withdraw my question)

[Bytor]

I would say that a good concert& sports venue is one of those "bones" that needs to be addressed. Just look at how many bands pass us by because the Aud is either not big enough or does not have modern rigging. and how much more popular with the Kitchener Rangers be with a 15,000-seat arena instead of one not even half that size?

Why would the Rangers be more popular with a larger arena?

(unless the current one regularly sells out with high ticket prices, in which case I withdraw my question)

For the game tomorrow it looks like half the sections have 1 or two single seats left, so like maybe 10-20 seats left total. That's a usual occurrence day before, from what I have heard.

The game on the 23rd looks like 756% sold.  March 1st looks like 90% sold, as does March 3rd.

[the_conestoga_guy]

Why would the Rangers be more popular with a larger arena?

(unless the current one regularly sells out with high ticket prices, in which case I withdraw my question)

For the game tomorrow it looks like half the sections have 1 or two single seats left, so like maybe 10-20 seats left total. That's a usual occurrence day before, from what I have heard.

The game on the 23rd looks like 756% sold.  March 1st looks like 90% sold, as does March 3rd.

Yes, the Rangers are regularly sold out or close to it. For those who don’t know, the Rangers and London Knights are really the two “big” teams in the league, and are well known to be the most profitable relative to the other teams. 

It may be unimportant to many to have a well run and successful local sports team. But the Rangers are our “thing” so I’d be happy to have a shiny new venue for them considering they’ve been profitable to date. Having a great venue for bands to stop at, or for the Titans to play at, is just gravy.

[bravado]

Or we could just avoid the shiny new thing and make the bones of downtown better, causing more developments to start, which increases the tax base, which lets you make it even better etc

I would say that a good concert& sports venue is one of those "bones" that needs to be addressed. Just look at how many bands pass us by because the Aud is either not big enough or does not have modern rigging. and how much more popular with the Kitchener Rangers be with a 15,000-seat arena instead of one not even half that size?

I'd rather have private industry build an arena in a desirable area instead of the public paying for an arena to try and make an area desirable. We've seen it go wrong so many times.

[jeffster]

Or we could just avoid the shiny new thing and make the bones of downtown better, causing more developments to start, which increases the tax base, which lets you make it even better etc

I would say that a good concert& sports venue is one of those "bones" that needs to be addressed. Just look at how many bands pass us by because the Aud is either not big enough or does not have modern rigging. and how much more popular with the Kitchener Rangers be with a 15,000-seat arena instead of one not even half that size?

The Rangers are a great team, but I would say that a 15,000 seat arena is too large for a major junior hockey team. Keep in mind too, that while they have excellent attendance right now, they also have free parking that is no more than 5 minute walk even if you're parked by the dog park. I believe they would struggle to come close to filling the place game after game if set at 15,000. They average 6,395 right now, out of 7,234 -88%- (or 7,777 with standing room).

The Aud does have poor rigging, but looking around, it seems that many artists are going after larger and larger venues. I am not sure how effective, at this point, it would be to draw more concerts and shows to Kitchener even if we had a great joint. Toronto had to fight just to get Taylor Swift to come for a visit.

If the goal was to obtain an NHL team (not likely), then fine, good idea. I am confident that the Maples Leafs territorial rights are not affected by this. But I can't see this happening.

[CP42]

I think the Manulife parking lot would be a better location for an arena than this. Maybe a public/private partnership with Manulife would be an option?

[Square]

That's what the citizens said in 1950. That an 8000 seat arena was too big. Imagine if we only had a 3000 or 4000 seat arena?

[ac3r]

I'd rather have private industry build an arena in a desirable area instead of the public paying for an arena to try and make an area desirable.

This is how it should be done. The last thing we need to do is blow probably well over 100 million in tax dollars on an arena for some boring local hockey team and concerts for artists that fell off a decade or two ago. We can barely convince the public that investments in bike lanes and buses is a good idea.

[plam]

I'd rather have private industry build an arena in a desirable area instead of the public paying for an arena to try and make an area desirable.

This is how it should be done. The last thing we need to do is blow probably well over 100 million in tax dollars on an arena for some boring local hockey team and concerts for artists that fell off a decade or two ago. We can barely convince the public that investments in bike lanes and buses is a good idea.

I agree with that. And yet somehow boomer politicians always think that convention centres and arenas are what people will support, and there isn't nearly as many questions about funding them as there should be. Bike lines, on the other hand, are something new and different. Can't have that.