Vertikal (471-481 King St E) | 23 & 19 fl | U/C

[tomh009]

FWIW, I did a full 360 walk around these buildings this weekend and I've decided this development is actually better looking than I thought. It's certainly not good-looking, but I'd rank it above DTK condo.

Same for me; I find the DTK condo worse yet. And this one would be much better had they used the tinted glass at the two corners (as in the renders) rather than the bright blue spandrel. The rest of the building is looking more or less OK, the red accent is not too obtrusive and the podium is reasonably well done.

[creative]

I ask again. So constantly complaining about this project achieves what?

[westwardloo]

I ask again. So constantly complaining about this project achieves what?

I will respond again, THIS IS AN ARCHITECTURE AND URBAN DEVELOPMENT FORUM. The whole point of this site is to discuss projects in Waterloo Region. The good and the bad. My opinion and contribution to this particular forum is that this is an absolute piece of crap building, the designer should be ashamed of what was produced. You may feel differently which is the great thing about a forum, we discuss, debate and argue about things. 

Personally I want the Region to be held to a higher design standard, but it seems like you are happy with what developers and architects are producing at a local level. That is fine, again we discuss, debate and argue on a forum. 

Everytime this project is mentioned I am going to mention how much I hate it, I feel that strong about it.

[tomh009]

I don't see you posting about all the architectural wonders in the University area though, so I assume you must hold tose in much higher regard.

[creative]

Although I never working in the architecture business, I did work as a designer for over 30 years. I also taught design in college. Everyone coming out of design school wants to design the great projects that you see in design publications and websites. Unfortunately those great projects make up about 15-20 of all projects. The other 80-85% pay the bills and help to keep the lights on and people paid. You learn about these things after working in senior management. These project often come with restraints such as limited time, limited budget and sometimes clients who like to get involved in the design process. You do your best with what you have to work with and move onto the next project. I’ve got a great portfolio from the 20% that I gladly show anyone. The other 80% are ok but not my finest work. Most have a story that go along with them. Quite possibly this project falls under the 80% category. Maybe the architect is not overly proud of this project and it will never show up in their portfolio. I’ve seen a lot of really bad design over the years. I play a game to try and figure out what the designer had actually intended and what role did the client play in the final result. I have a little chuckle and move on. What’s done is done and it’s not changing. You can choose to let it continue to drive you crazy or move on. We all here understand your concerns as you have expressed them many times. You contribute much to this forum with new and exciting projects and I look forward to you continuing to do so. I do believe that it is time to let this project go.

[westwardloo]

Although I never working in the architecture business, I did work as a designer for over 30 years. I also taught design in college. Everyone coming out of design school wants to design the great projects that you see in design publications and websites. Unfortunately those great projects make up about 15-20 of all projects. The other 80-85% pay the bills and help to keep the lights on and people paid. You learn about these things after working in senior management. These project often come with restraints such as limited time, limited budget and sometimes clients who like to get involved in the design process. You do your best with what you have to work with and move onto the next project. I’ve got a great portfolio from the 20% that I gladly show anyone. The other 80% are ok but not my finest work. Most have a story that go along with them. Quite possibly this project falls under the 80% category. Maybe the architect is not overly proud of this project and it will never show up in their portfolio. I’ve seen a lot of really bad design over the years. I play a game to try and figure out what the designer had actually intended and what role did the client play in the final result. I have a little chuckle and move on. What’s done is done and it’s not changing. You can choose to let it continue to drive you crazy or move on. We all here understand your concerns as you have expressed them many times. You contribute much to this forum with new and exciting projects and I look forward to you continuing to do so. I do believe that it is time to let this project go.

I understand where you are coming from and get that not every project can be a winner, but I also feel like this is a complete cop out. The region sees easily 90-95% be the pay the bills type designs. The point is architects and designers can produce pay the bills type designs that look good with the same materials chosen for this project. We have conditioned ourselves to have such low standards that we will accept anything that has walls and a window. Travel to Scandinavia and see what can be mass produced in their cities. The have the same type of materials, skilled trades, architects and Engineers with the same 85% of project pay the bills requirement. You don't even need to go to Scandinavia, look what is being proposed or built in Winnipeg, Calgary, Kelowna, Halifax. They have and inverse of what we see in the region 15-20% are shitty project and and the rest are well designed. 

Again this project just seems to get so much focus on this forum, but great local projects like The Stanely, Stride, Uptown 168, the carrick get absolutely nothing. Those are all well design mid-rise buildings that would fall under the mentioned 80% rule.

[ac3r]

I ask again. So constantly complaining about this project achieves what?

People come here to discuss things whether it is in a positive or negative light. The vast majority of the architecture in this region sucks ass so it's no surprise people want to complain about it. I can tell you that there are a couple of architects and designers who work in the region who lurk this site and it has influenced minor design changes in some of the local projects due to what is discussed here. That's a good thing.

But besides that there is much more to creating a good city than access to transit and "other conveniences". The actual tangible design of the buildings and spaces in which people live and work has a significant influence on the quality of life one experiences. It's easy enough to look up architectural theory essays, books, magazines and so on to educate yourself on why good design matters just as much as other aspects of the built environment. History is also full of examples of what we previously thought of as good design ideas actually resulted in more negative outcomes. There's a reason why we no longer build things like urban malls or large social housing projects because we since learned that those things are not good. Further, we've even abandoned some movements of architectural design because they had negative impacts on the people working/living within (even if the aesthetics of them are subjective) such as fascist design, structuralism, brutalism etc. If you worked as a designer and lecturer for 30 years then I think you would understand this.

If you want a good city then you need more than light rail, bike lanes and rental bedrooms in a poorly designed and poor quality building from Drewlo. The criticism people have is justified.

[tomh009]

Good points about things like the failures of urban malls, challenges of large social housing projects (Jane and Finch, anyone?)--and there are plenty of other examples of learned lessons of city-planning, including the blight created by urban expressways.

I would argue that the specific architectural styles (whether brutalist, modernist, rationalist or something else) ultimately play a smaller role in the quality of the city. You can design a good build or a bad building in any of those styles.

[Square]

The crane is gone and did anybody go to the party they held this weekend?

[Acitta]

There is an open house this weekend which I haven't attended. 1 bedrooms start at $1750. 2 bedrooms start at $2475. 3 bedrooms start at $2900. First month free on all 2 and 3 bedrooms. There are 16 different floor plans.

[panamaniac]

Asking rent starts at ....

[Spokes]

Wow. That's a lot. But that's the going rate I guess?

[Acitta]

Wow. That's a lot. But that's the going rate I guess?

I was going to go to the open house, but the $1500 I am paying is already too much.

[Gubs]

I can only wonder what it would be like to attend an open house. I’m sure the first thought would be “when is this place going to be ready?  It’s nowhere near ready now”. 

Crews are frantically working on the grounds on King - pouring concrete mostly. Even working on weekends now. The challenge is the construction related junk that is strewn about the site. The crews move it from area A to area B in order to work on area A. Then it is all moved back. Just a continuation of the chaos that has plagued this project. 

Still at least another year until it is done. 😔

[tomh009]

Still at least another year until it is done. 😔

I'm confident that first people will be moving in before the end of the year.