Grand River Transit

[Markster]

Can you imagine how complex the software must be to coordinate all the requests for priority signaling - especially once ion starts, and we throw that into the mix?

As a software guy, and based on everything I've read about the signal priority, my educated guess is that you give the complexity far too much credit!

All of the signal priority is based around simply pre-empting the light's planned timed phase.
They will at most be doing shortened reds, and held greens. These are timed to fit within the light's preprogrammed signal cycle. It will always be (for example) 3 minutes for a full cycle, but when a bus requests signal priority, the exact timing within that 3 minutes gets adjusted.

A bus that's behind schedule, will issue a signal priority request to each eligible traffic signal along the way. The traffic signal will read that, and then extend the current green, or shorten the current red as much as it can. The next red or green will be shorter by an equal amount. If another bus comes along in that time, then there's nothing the signal can do, as it needs to catch back up. There's a limit to how many vehicles can take advantage of signal priority.

All this points to each signal being independent, and nothing coordinates between signals.

As for ION, we've seen the detectors in the track bed. I imagine that ION will simply request the same kind of signal priority. I bet that any GRT buses running parallel won't get signal priority at all, so as not to interfere. And as for crossings at railway corridors, GRT will certainly have to wait for ION trains regardless.

[Elmira Guy]

The route 8 is getting tore apart from what i have seen of the new maps.  It will not go up as far as University but will be turning on Union and going to Margaret.  Going south it will be two different routes as well I believe the 20 will take over the Franklin side and go over to Wilson. Court-land side will not be turning on Walton but continue down to the street Tim Horton's is on I forget the name Shelly I think.   Hopefully that will fix the route 8 problem.

So for those of us who live in the Weber and Lincoln area, there will then be no bus heading south on Weber at all? The #12 goes north on Weber but only as far as University. If I'm understanding you right, there will be no way to get south from Weber & Lincoln?

If that's the case, that's ridiculous!

[KevinL]

The route 8 is getting tore apart from what i have seen of the new maps.  It will not go up as far as University but will be turning on Union and going to Margaret.  Going south it will be two different routes as well I believe the 20 will take over the Franklin side and go over to Wilson. Court-land side will not be turning on Walton but continue down to the street Tim Horton's is on I forget the name Shelly I think.   Hopefully that will fix the route 8 problem.

So for those of us who live in the Weber and Lincoln area, there will then be no bus heading south on Weber at all? The #12 goes north on Weber but only as far as University. If I'm understanding you right, there will be no way to get south from Weber & Lincoln?

If that's the case, that's ridiculous!

Rick is talking about one route (28 in the plans), which uses Margaret and Union. A separate route (planned as 18) will go straight along Weber.

See the map here: http://www.grt.ca/en/about-grt/resources...etwork.pdf

[timc]

Yeah, that's how I understand it too, all the lights behave more or less independently when it comes to priority. I'm not sure how that works in a green wave situation. I also assume that an emergency vehicle can come along and throw everything out of whack.

I was doing a bit of googling about this, and I found a release from 2011 (http://www.regionofwaterloo.ca/en/region...1-0906.pdf). It says:

The functional capabilities needed for the upgraded TSP software module have been identified by staff and include some features and event logs such as: queue jump operation, ability to skip phases, multiple user-definable features, multiple input capabilities, logging of TSP adjustments to the signal timing and future vehicle tracking.

So maybe it is a bit more than just extending green lights and shortening reds.

I also wonder if this is needed as part of the solution to the UW transit plaza. Will the buses use the systems to open the gates to cross the tracks? From the article:

The devices allow a bus running behind schedule in key areas to shorten red lights or extend green lights at intersections, activate transit-only signals at intersections with transit queue jump lanes, and to control gate systems at transit garages and other locations.

[MidTowner]

According to the conceptual maps, the 18 will serve Weber through there. It would actually be quite good- the 18 would go all the way up Weber from downtown to University, and then turn west. I think there should be a route the entire length of Weber, but that's a different story.

Edit: Kevin beat me to it, and posted a link to the map to boot.

[KevinL]

I'm looking at the 2018 proposal map again (http://www.grt.ca/en/about-grt/resources...etwork.pdf) and am curious about Block Line station. The map shows the 16, 26 and 201 all terminating there, but I have heard nothing about a mini-terminal or turnaround structure, nor do I see how one could be easily put in. Any insights?

[neonjoe]

There appears to be a bus bay on each side of Courtland near the station as well as a right turn lane onto Hillmount with a 4 head traffic light on the right with what appears to be a transit signal on the top. Likely is may be a bus bay as well.

[Elmira Guy]

@ KevinL and MidTowner

Thanks! I would have found it stupifyingly silly to not have a bus that ran south along Weber in this area. But then I have been alive long enough to realise that just because something is stupid it doesn't mean it won't be implemented.

I agree MidTowner that there should be a bus that runs up Weber past University. As it stands, if I want to go to Canadian Tire or Wholesale Club, I have to either take two buses then walk from King down Weber, or walk from University up. Neither is very useful when planning to buy something(s) heavy or awkward to carry any kind of distance. So I can only do so when I can arrange a ride with someone.
Seeing as there are at least two buses that travel University and stop at Weber (I believe this is the case), I don't know why 8 does, or why (presumably) 18 will turn off Weber here as well.

[timc]

In the plan, 18 is interlined with 12, right? So it has to end up on University.

I agree that there seems to be a big gap on Weber between Albert and University that isn't very well served.

[Elmira Guy]

I couldn't tell from the map. Do the 12 and 18 overlap on the east side, or does 12 not start until King and University?

Weber from University to King isn't serviced at all. Perhaps even as far as Albert as you say, though I don't know if it is just under served, or not at all.

[ijmorlan]

I'm looking at the 2018 proposal map again (http://www.grt.ca/en/about-grt/resources...etwork.pdf) and am curious about Block Line station. The map shows the 16, 26 and 201 all terminating there, but I have heard nothing about a mini-terminal or turnaround structure, nor do I see how one could be easily put in. Any insights?

The RFP plans showed a U-turn lane for buses, from rightmost northbound to rightmost southbound if I remember correctly. Controlled by signals of course.

[KevinL]

Elmira Guy: the 12 and 18 will interline (one turns into the other).

ijmorlan: Buses would U-turn in the Block Line/Courtland intersecton? Interesting.

[Elmira Guy]

Roger that. Thanks Kevin.

[danbrotherston]

Elmira Guy: the 12 and 18 will interline (one turns into the other).

ijmorlan: Buses would U-turn in the Block Line/Courtland intersecton? Interesting.

With the caveat that GRT lists them as different route numbers as to have the flexibility to not do so as needed.

[KevinL]

Also keeps it from being one giant, unwieldy route (they meet again at their south ends, at Fairway).